SCIENCE IN THE BIBLE

[MorningGlory]

1 hour ago, Enoch2021 said:

 

 The Scriptures explicitly denote a: Flat/Non-Spinning/Domed/Geocentric Earth.

 

 

Please post the Scripture you reference.

[Enoch2021]

1 hour ago, MorningGlory said:

Please post the Scripture you reference.

Flat:

(Isaiah 40-22 ISV)  "He's the one who sits above the DISK OF THE EARTH, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers. He's the one who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them like a tent to live in".

(Revelation 20:9) "And they went up on the BREADTH of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them."

"Breadth" = "Platos" Strong's Greek Definition G4114 --- from G4116 (plat'-oos)..: Spread out "FLAT".

The Passage (In English) should read: "And they went up on the Flat Earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them."

 

(Isaiah 40:21-22) "Have ye not known? have ye not heard? hath it not been told you from the beginning? have ye not understood from the foundations of the earth?  {22} It is he that sitteth upon the CIRCLE of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:"

(Proverbs 8:27-28) "When He established the heavens, I was there, When He inscribed a CIRCLE ON the face of the deep, When He made firm the skies above, When the springs of the deep became fixed,

"Circle" = "chuwg" Strong's Hebrew Definition #02329...

1) circle, circuit, compass.

The Problem (for 'Spinning-Ballers')...

(Isaiah 22:18) "He will surely violently turn and toss thee like a BALL into a large country: there shalt thou die, and there the chariots of thy glory shall be the shame of thy lord's house."

"Ball" = "Duwr" Strong's Hebrew #01754...

1. Ball
2. Ball, Circle

If Isaiah wanted to tell you the Earth was a BALL "Sphere", he would have simply SAID SO... ("Duwr") !!
 
And, how can you "Inscribe" a "Sphere" ON anything, pray tell??

"Face of the (whole) Earth" is used 35 Times in Scripture; can you show us the Face of a Sphere...?

 

(Job 38:4-7) "Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.  {5} Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it ?  {6} Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;  {7} When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?"

How can you STRETCH THE LINE on a Curved Foundation??

 

Non-Spinning "Immovable":

(1 Chronicles 16:30) "Fear before him, all the earth: the world also shall be stable, that it be NOT-MOVED."

(Psalms 93:1) "The LORD reigneth, he is clothed with majesty; the LORD is clothed with strength, wherewith he hath girded himself: the world also is stablished, that it CANNOT BE MOVED."

(Psalms 96:10) "Say among the heathen that the LORD reigneth: the world also shall be established that it shall NOT BE MOVED: he shall judge the people righteously."

 

Geocentric: 

(Joshua 10:12) "Then spake Joshua to the LORD in the day when the LORD delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon; and thou, Moon, in the valley of Ajalon."  

If it was the Earth that was moving, Why didn't Joshua say: "EARTH STAND STILL"??

 

Domed:

(Genesis 1:6) "And God said, Let there be a FIRMAMENT in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters."
(Genesis 1:7) "And God made the FIRMAMENT, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so."
(Genesis 1:8) "And God called the FIRMAMENT Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day."
(Genesis 1:14) " And God said, Let there be lights IN the FIRMAMENT of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:"

Firmament = Strong's #07549  //  eyqr  //  raqiya` //  raw-kee'-ah  //  

from 07554; TWOT - 2217a; n m 

AV - firmament 17; 17 
1) extended surface ("SOLID"), expanse, firmament 
1a) expanse (flat as base, support) 
1b) firmament (of vault of heaven supporting waters above) 
1b1) considered by Hebrews as SOLID and supporting 'waters' above.

Brown-Driver-Briggs:
רָקִיעַ noun masculineGenesis 1:6 extended surface, ("SOLID") expanse (as if beaten out; compare Job 37:18); — absolute ׳ר Ezekiel 1:22 +, construct ׳רְ Genesis 1:14 +; —ᵐ5 στερέωμα, ᵑ9 firmamentum, compare Syriac below √above; —
1 (flat) expanse (as if of ice, compare כְּעֵין הַקֶּרַח), as base, support (WklAltor. Forsch. iv. 347) Ezekiel 1:22,23,25(gloss ? compare Co Toy), Ezekiel 1:26 (supporting ׳י's throne). Hence (CoEzekiel 1:22)
2 the vault of heaven, or 'firmament,' regarded by Hebrews as SOLID, and supporting 'waters' above it.

 

In Conclusion,

Dr. Michael S. Heiser (Renowned Bible Scholar)...

"The issue is how “literal creationists” are actually only selective literalists (or, as I would call them, “inconsistent literalists”). If one was truly consistent in interpreting the creation description in Genesis 1 at face value (along with other creation descriptions in BOTH TESTAMENTS), you’d come out with a round, flat earth, complete with solid dome over the earth, and earth supported by pillars, with Sheol underneath, etc.  But creationists who claim the literal mantel don’t do that, since the results are clearly non-scientific. My view, as readers know, is that we ought to simply let the text say what it says, and let it be what it is. It was God’s choice to prompt people living millennia ago to produce this thing we call the Bible, and so we dishonor it when we impose our own interpretive context on it. Our modern evangelical contexts are alien to the Bible. Frankly, any context other than the context in which the biblical writers were moved to write is foreign to the Bible.  So, who’s the literalist now?"  
http://drmsh.com/interpreting-genesis-1-literalist/

 

regards

[MorningGlory]

1 hour ago, Enoch2021 said:

 

In Conclusion,

Dr. Michael S. Heiser (Renowned Bible Scholar)...

"The issue is how “literal creationists” are actually only selective literalists (or, as I would call them, “inconsistent literalists”). If one was truly consistent in interpreting the creation description in Genesis 1 at face value (along with other creation descriptions in BOTH TESTAMENTS), you’d come out with a round, flat earth, complete with solid dome over the earth, and earth supported by pillars, with Sheol underneath, etc.  But creationists who claim the literal mantel don’t do that, since the results are clearly non-scientific. My view, as readers know, is that we ought to simply let the text say what it says, and let it be what it is. It was God’s choice to prompt people living millennia ago to produce this thing we call the Bible, and so we dishonor it when we impose our own interpretive context on it. Our modern evangelical contexts are alien to the Bible. Frankly, any context other than the context in which the biblical writers were moved to write is foreign to the Bible.  So, who’s the literalist now?"  
http://drmsh.com/interpreting-genesis-1-literalist/

 

regards

Well, I read through all of the Scripture and I would say that it does not say the Earth is flat; it's simply interpretation.  As for Dr. Michael Houser, he has disavowed the claims by one flat earther who posted that Dr. Houser believed in a flat earth so he cannot be used as proof of anything.  From robschannel.com, quote from Dr. Michael Houser:

“My position is straightforward. The biblical writers do indeed describe a flat round earth (with other features the flat earthers skip; see below). They wrote about the world this way because they lived at a time before knowledge of the natural world was sufficient to demonstrate otherwise. But I don’t believe the earth is really flat “because the Bible tells me so.” The knowledge the biblical writers had of their physical surroundings isn’t a truth proposition for biblical theology. Anyone who uses my work to prop up this idea without providing a disclaimer that I reject modern flat earth thinking is unprincipled and deliberately dishonest.”

[Enoch2021]

4 minutes ago, MorningGlory said:

Well, I read through all of the Scripture and I would say that it does not say the Earth is flat; it's simply interpretation. 

So 'Na'ahh".  You do realize that my post with all the Scriptures supporting my claims are what you're responding to... or did you just skip that part?

It Plainly Says, it's: Flat/Not-Moving/Domed/with the Sun, Moon and Stars moving (Geocentric).

The Meaning of Words are not "Interpretations".

 

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As for Dr. Michael Houser

It's Dr. Michael Heiser.

 

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As for Dr. Michael Houser, he has disavowed the claims by one flat earther who posted that Dr. Houser believed in a flat earth so he cannot be used as proof of anything.

I'm afraid you're somewhat confused.  Your (and his) appeal is quite the Non-Sequitur...

Ya see, what Dr Michael Heiser "BELIEVES" is Painfully Irrelevant.  We're interested in his Academic/Biblical Scholarship and what his Professional Acumen illuminates from Scripture.

So we have:

1.  God's Word (That Dr. Michael Heiser Confirms) vs

2.  Dr. Michael Heiser's "Beliefs"... or Dr. Michael Heiser's Word.

Savvy?

Which one will you follow?

 

regards

[one.opinion]

2 hours ago, Enoch2021 said:

Dr. Michael S. Heiser (Renowned Bible Scholar)...

Dr. Michael S. Heiser (Renowned Bible Scholar) also said:

“It’s difficult for me to believe anyone is so gullible and, yes, stupid, to believe the earth is flat. But as with so many other nuggets of nonsense, social media has brought forth its exhibits to demonstrate that reality.”

You are taking literally passages that should not be taken literally.

[MorningGlory]

30 minutes ago, Enoch2021 said:

So 'Na'ahh".  You do realize that my post with all the Scriptures supporting my claims are what you're responding to... or did you just skip that part?

It Plainly Says, it's: Flat/Not-Moving/Domed/with the Sun, Moon and Stars moving (Geocentric).

The Meaning of Words are not "Interpretations".

 

It's Dr. Michael Heiser.

 

I'm afraid you're somewhat confused.  Your (and his) appeal is quite the Non-Sequitur...

Ya see, what Dr Michael Heiser "BELIEVES" is Painfully Irrelevant.  We're interested in his Academic/Biblical Scholarship and what his Professional Acumen illuminates from Scripture.

So we have:

1.  God's Word (That Dr. Michael Heiser Confirms) vs

2.  Dr. Michael Heiser's "Beliefs"... or Dr. Michael Heiser's Word.

Savvy?

Which one will you follow?

 

regards

Oops!  I got the last name wrong indeed.  But the point is that this man is touted by flat earthers as saying the Earth is flat when he absolutely denies believing that.  I don't really care about anyone's beliefs except my own anyway.  The Earth is a sphere spinning in space the way God designed it.  If we have centuries of scientific observations and research confirming the awesomeness of God's creation on one hand and a litany of cockamamey theories on the other I think I'll stick with the observable as opposed to the flights of fancy.  The words 'flat' and 'domed' don't appear anywhere in those Scriptures so that statement is disingenuous.  And for you, a flat earth theorist, to call ME confused is so funny I nearly lost my breath.

[MorningGlory]

Just now, one.opinion said:

Dr. Michael S. Heiser (Renowned Bible Scholar) also said:

“It’s difficult for me to believe anyone is so gullible and, yes, stupid, to believe the earth is flat. But as with so many other nuggets of nonsense, social media has brought forth its exhibits to demonstrate that reality.”

Oh, my goodness.  I missed that quote.  And yet I see on the flat earther sites they are still claiming he agrees with their theory.  What he actually said that it's his opinion that the authors of the Scriptural descriptions were using the knowledge and experiences they had AT THAT TIME to express themselves.  I'm surprised the man hasn't sued.

[Enoch2021]

33 minutes ago, one.opinion said:

Dr. Michael S. Heiser (Renowned Bible Scholar) also said:

“It’s difficult for me to believe anyone is so gullible and, yes, stupid, to believe the earth is flat. But as with so many other nuggets of nonsense, social media has brought forth its exhibits to demonstrate that reality.”

Well everyone has an "Opinion".  As mentioned, his "BELIEFS" are Irrelevant.

 

Quote

You are taking literally passages that should not be taken literally.

Generalized Sweeping Ipse Dixit Baseless 'bare' Assertion Fallacy.

 

regards

[Enoch2021]

56 minutes ago, MorningGlory said:

But the point is that this man is touted by flat earthers as saying the Earth is flat

You're still confused; I didn't 'tout' Dr Heiser as saying the Earth is Flat.  I 'touted' Dr. Heiser for his Professional Acumen to CONFIRM that God Said the Earth was Flat.  Big Difference.

ps.  Stereotype Fallacy: "flat-earthers".

 

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I don't really care about anyone's beliefs except my own anyway.

It sure sounded like you cared about Dr Heiser's "Beliefs"...you POSTED THEM.

 

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The Earth is a sphere spinning in space

I'd say there's a better chance of Liberace being resurrected sporting a purple tutu and jumping on a chartreuse hobbled unicorn and riding around the Sombrero Galaxy.

 

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If we have centuries of scientific observations

I've already admonished you-- by explanation and illustration countless times, that the Shape of something (Flat/Sphere) is outside the purview of The Scientific Method.  So what on Earth are you talking about?

ps.  Scientific Observations??  What's the difference between a Scientific Observation and just Plain Ole Observations?  Goggles?? 

 

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The words 'flat' and 'domed' don't appear anywhere in those Scriptures

Ahhh yea they do, I already showed you...

(Revelation 20:9) "And they went up on the BREADTH of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them."

 

"Breadth" = "Platos" Strong's Greek Definition G4114 --- from G4116 (plat'-oos)..: Spread out "FLAT".

 

The Passage (In English) should read: "And they went up on the Flat Earth and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them."

"Domed" wouldn't appear explicitly... because the word wasn't coined in those times; However, it's Prima Facie "Firmament".

You forgot "NOT-MOVED". 

 

btw: Feigned Exasperations are not coherent arguments/positions.

 

regards

[MorningGlory]

13 minutes ago, Enoch2021 said:

You're still confused; I didn't 'tout' Dr Heiser as saying the Earth is Flat.  I 'touted' Dr. Heiser for his Professional Acumen to CONFIRM that God Said the Earth was Flat.  Big Difference.

ps.  Stereotype Fallacy: "flat-earthers".

 

It sure sounded like you cared about Dr Heiser's "Beliefs"...you POSTED THEM.

 

I'd say there's a better chance of Liberace being resurrected sporting a purple tutu and jumping on a chartreuse hobbled unicorn and riding around the Sombrero Galaxy.

 

I've already admonished you-- by explanation and illustration countless times, that the Shape of something (Flat/Sphere) is outside the purview of The Scientific Method.  So what on Earth are you talking about?

ps.  Scientific Observations??  What's the difference between a Scientific Observation and just Plain Ole Observations?  Goggles?? 

 

Ahhh yea they do, I already showed you...

(Revelation 20:9) "And they went up on the BREADTH of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them."

 

"Breadth" = "Platos" Strong's Greek Definition G4114 --- from G4116 (plat'-oos)..: Spread out "FLAT".

 

The Passage (In English) should read: "And they went up on the Flat Earth and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them."

"Domed" wouldn't appear explicitly... because the word wasn't coined in those times; However, it's Prima Facie "Firmament".

You forgot "NOT-MOVED". 

 

btw: Feigned Exasperations are not coherent arguments/positions.

 

regards

First off, you are not a professor teaching a class.  No one in their right mind believes your theories.  Second, I didn't say YOU touted Heiser's words, I said flat earthers are doing that....and they are; please don't be disingenuous.  Third, why do you think because you tell anyone anything that they are supposed to believe it?  Not how the SPINNING BALL world works, Enoch.  And fourth, you can't 'admonish' me or anyone else; you're just another poster and your opinions are no more important than anyone else's here.  The flat earth theory is a crock and I don't believe anyone in 2017 is seriously trying to argue it's validity.  Good grief.