How do the believers in Christ differ from Israel?

[Marilyn C]

1 hour ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Marilyn.

Right. The Scriptures in John 20 says what it says; HOWEVER, there are several ways that this could be accomplished and some of those have absolutely NO supernatural miracle associated with it at all! Of course, the Scriptures are not "speculating," but the INTERPRETATION that this has to be "going through dimensions" is what is spurious.

He could have been invisible; He could have snuck in behind them; He could have shifted His appearance; He could have shifted his molecules to fit between the spaces of the molecules in the wall; He could have changed sizes and slipped under the door, changing back to normal size before they knew what was going on; He could have done a LOT of things that are told to us in Scripture. For us to settle on the "going through dimensions" solution is a problem. Stick to the Scriptures.

Hi Retro,

That is all speculating bro. Remember when Jesus` human veil, His flesh was drawn aside -

`Jesus....was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and His clothes became as white as light.` (Matt. 17: 2)

God`s word also tells us that `there is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.`  (1 Cor. 15: 44)
 

Clearly the earthly body made of the dust returns to it, but we shall bear the image of the heavenly man. And that is like the Lord who has a spiritual body that is not limited by earthly limitations.

Thus there is a natural dimension and a spiritual dimension. The Lord is quite able to operate in each as shown in His word.

Marilyn.

[Marilyn C]

59 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Marilyn.

Good! I was HOPING you would repeat these points.

Here's the thing: I avoid using terms that are little more than clichés, and "church" is one of them. It's been used for a particularly shaped building to the "world-wide universal (or Catholic) Church." A BIBLICAL "church" was a LOCAL meeting within a particular community, like a city (Ephesus) or a province such as "the churches of Galatia." There's only ONE locaton in Scripture that talks about a "universal" church, and that's the great gathering of all believers. If all the various churches were to be considered one, they would not have been called "churches" (plural). An ekkleesia is a "gathering," either the meeting itself or the members of the meeting as a unit.

Another such term that is often a cliché is the "body of Christ." That an ekkleesia was called "a body" was found in 1 Corinthians 12:

Hi Retro,

`And he (Jesus the head) gave some to be......till we all come to the unity of the faith....may grow up in all things into Him who is the head - Christ, from whom the WHOLE BODY , joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes the growth of the body for the edifying o itself in love.` (Eph. 4: 11 - 16  Shortened)

`...let no one defraud you of your reward....and not holding fast to the Head, from whom all the body, nourished and knit together by joints and ligaments, grows with the increase which is from God.` (Col. 2: 18 & 19)

Here we see the pictorial representation of what the community of believers all over the world, are - a body, with Christ as the Head. Now it is not a public meeting that constitutes the Body or knits the believers together, but the Head, Christ who nourishes it and by His Holy Spirit directs the individuals to encourage, edify and build each other up. One is an organisation, the other, an organism.

Marilyn.

 

[Marilyn C]

1 hour ago, Retrobyter said:

 

This is Miryam's (Mary's) lineage. Thus, for all of them to be alive and mourning for their ONLY Son or their FIRSTBORN Son at one time means that the Resurrection will have already occurred and they were NOT excluded!

 

Hi Retro,

`And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on me whom they have pierced; they will mourn for him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for him as one grieves for a first-born.` (Zech. 12: 19)

Notice the words - `as one mourns, as one grieves,` the `as` is referring to the type of mourning and grieving. These are the one-third of Israel that have come through the tribulation. (Zech. 13: 9)

From Hebrews 11 we know that the OT saints (you were referring to as resurrected) are awaiting the city, the New Jerusalem which is after the millennium. So no resurrection meaning in Zechariah 12 which is at the beginning of the millennium.

Marilyn.

[Marilyn C]

1 hour ago, Retrobyter said:

 

The following chart shows what I've learned about the factions of people who will or will not participate in the Kingdom that the Messiah establishes: (This was created in 2003.)

Hi again Retro,

I agree with some of your groups, however the Body of Christ, believers who have been made like unto Christ, will definitely NOT be on earth, but ruling with Christ on His throne over all as promised. Jesus said -

`To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with me on my throne, as I overcame and sat down with my Father on His throne.` (Rev. 3: 21)

Marilyn.

[Retrobyter]

7 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Retro,

That is all speculating bro. Remember when Jesus` human veil, His flesh was drawn aside -

`Jesus....was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and His clothes became as white as light.` (Matt. 17: 2)

God`s word also tells us that `there is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.`  (1 Cor. 15: 44)
 

Clearly the earthly body made of the dust returns to it, but we shall bear the image of the heavenly man. And that is like the Lord who has a spiritual body that is not limited by earthly limitations.

Thus there is a natural dimension and a spiritual dimension. The Lord is quite able to operate in each as shown in His word.

Marilyn.

Shalom, Marilyn.

(First let me say, now is not the time to be skiddish about reading a long post.)

Of COURSE, it is! That's what I'm saying! Just as you are now speculating that "Jesus' human veil, His flesh was drawn aside," and one could see His "spiriual body." HOWEVER, this was back in Matthew 17:2 BEFORE He was even crucified, let alone raised to new life as a new body, a body, btw, that could be seen, touched, and handled and that could eat food!

Luke 24:36-43
36 And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.
41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
43 And he took it, and did eat before them.
KJV

Also, Matthew 17 also gives the information that His transfiguration was a VISION in verse 9:

Matthew 17:9
9 And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.
KJV

This is why it is better to use a literal, word-for-word translation, like the KJV or the NASV. The NIV, which is a dynamic equivalent translation, says,

Matthew 17:9
9 As they were coming down the mountain, Jesus instructed them, "Don't tell anyone what you have seen, until the Son of Man has been raised from the dead." 
NIV

This misses the whole point that it was A VISION! And, lest you reason that it doesn't matter, this is the Greek word so translated:

NT:3705 horama (hor'-am-ah); from NT:3708; something gazed at, i.e. a spectacle (especially supernatural):
KJV - sight, vision.

(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

And, the word is used in these places:

Matthew 17:9
9 And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.
KJV
Acts 7:31
31 When Moses saw it, he wondered at the sight: and as he drew near to behold it, the voice of the Lord came unto him,
KJV
Acts 9:10
10 And there was a certain disciple at Damascus, named Ananias; and to him said the Lord in a vision, Ananias. And he said, Behold, I am here, Lord.
KJV
Acts 9:12
12 And hath seen in a vision a man named Ananias coming in, and putting his hand on him, that he might receive his sight.
KJV
Acts 10:3
3 He saw in a vision evidently about the ninth hour of the day an angel of God coming in to him, and saying unto him, Cornelius.
KJV
Acts 10:17
17 Now while Peter doubted in himself what this vision which he had seen should mean, behold, the men which were sent from Cornelius had made inquiry for Simon's house, and stood before the gate,
KJV
Acts 10:19
19 While Peter thought on the vision, the Spirit said unto him, Behold, three men seek thee.
KJV
Acts 11:5
5 I was in the city of Joppa praying: and in a trance I saw a vision, A certain vessel descend, as it had been a great sheet, let down from heaven by four corners; and it came even to me:
KJV
Acts 12:9
9 And he went out, and followed him; and wist not that it was true which was done by the angel; but thought he saw a vision.
KJV
Acts 16:9
9 And a vision appeared to Paul in the night; There stood a man of Macedonia, and prayed him, saying, Come over into Macedonia, and help us.
KJV
Acts 16:10
10 And after he had seen the vision, immediately we endeavored to go into Macedonia, assuredly gathering that the Lord had called us for to preach the gospel unto them.
KJV
Acts 18:9
9 Then spake the Lord to Paul in the night by a vision, Be not afraid, but speak, and hold not thy peace:
KJV
Acts 26:19
19 Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:
KJV

Therefore, your conclusion that there is a "spiritual dimension," containing "spiritual bodies" that are "not limited by earthly limitations" is faulty. It doesn't fit the facts of Scripture!

Furthermore, that's not what "spiritual" means. Keeping Luke 24:36-43 in mind, look at the Resurrection Chapter, 1 Corinthians 15:

1 Corinthians 15:35-54
35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:
38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.
39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is ...
one kind of flesh of men,
another flesh of beasts,
another of fishes, and
another of birds.
40 There are also celestial (Greek: epouraniou = "of-" or "belonging-to-above-the-sky") bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory (Greek: doxa) of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

NT:1391 doxa (dox'-ah); from the base of NT:1380; glory (as very apparent), in a wide application (literal or figurative, objective or subjective):
KJV - dignity, glory (-ious), honour, praise, worship.

NT:1380 dokeoo (dok-eh'-o); a prolonged form of a primary verb, dokoo (dok'-o) (used only in an alternate in certain tenses; compare the base of NT:1166) of the same meaning; to think; by implication, to seem (truthfully or uncertainly):
KJV - be accounted, (of own) please (-ure), be of reputation, seem (good), suppose, think, trow.

(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

Therefore, doxa means "to stick out like a sore thumb!" Like a "white star on the black background of space," it means to be VERY noticeable! For human kings, it's to be found in the finery and jewelry they wear and how that jewelry reflects the light; for objects in space, it's to be found in the BRIGHTNESS and COLOR of how they shine!

41 There is ...
one glory of the sun, and
another glory of the moon, and
another glory of the stars:
for one star differeth from another star in glory.
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead.
It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory:
it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body.

There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written,
The first man Adam was made a living soul (a life-maintaining air-breather); (quote from Genesis 2:7)
the last Adam was made a quickening spirit (a life-giving WIND).
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

Notice the order here! The pneumatikos body, the life-giving body, that we know as the risen Savior, Messiah Yeshua`, the "last Adam," came AFTER His psuchikos body, His air-breathing body!

Also, to "breathe air" is a gentle in and out, with occasional sighs, bursts of laughter, blowing and speaking and shouting. To "blast air like the wind," means a MUCH STRONGER body, especially if He can give life with such wind!

47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven (the sky).
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly (from-above-the-sky), such are they also that are heavenly (from-above-the-sky).
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly (from-above-the-sky).
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

Remember Luke 24:36-43; Yeshua` said that He had "flesh and bones"; therefore, to say that "the Kingdom of God is NOT physical" is incorrect. Paul is saying that MERE human bodies cannot attain that Kingdom; nor can anything that decays inherit that which cannot decay! We have to be resurrected as bodies as strong as His is!

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For ...
this corruptible must put on incorruption, and
this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So ...
when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and
this mortal shall have put on immortality,
then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
KJV

THAT'S the importance of the Resurrection, and THAT is why we look forward to a New Earth with its New Sky - its New Atmosphere - and its capital city, the New Jerusalem which must first be relocated here! We're not to be anticipating "going to some Heaven" We are to anticipate the RESURRECTION and all that follows! For, sandwiched between the Resurrection and the New Earth is the MILLENNIUM, the time when Paul said that the Messiah would "subdue all His enemies!" (found in the same chapter, I might add).

[Retrobyter]

10 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Retro,

`And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on me whom they have pierced; they will mourn for him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for him as one grieves for a first-born.` (Zech. 12: 19)

Notice the words - `as one mourns, as one grieves,` the `as` is referring to the type of mourning and grieving. These are the one-third of Israel that have come through the tribulation. (Zech. 13: 9)

From Hebrews 11 we know that the OT saints (you were referring to as resurrected) are awaiting the city, the New Jerusalem which is after the millennium. So no resurrection meaning in Zechariah 12 which is at the beginning of the millennium.

Marilyn.

Shalom, Marilyn.

No, of THIS I am ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN: They will be mourning for their GRANDCHILD, Yeshua` Natsariyt, God's Messiah! The reason it says "as" is because they are not actually grieving for their own "only son" or their own "firstborn son"; they will be grieving for their great grandson FROM their "only son" or FROM their "firstborn son!" They are Yeshua`s grandparents, however far removed, and they will look upon Him whom they have pierced, in shock and dismay that their own children and relatives could be responsible for KILLING YHWH'S Messiah! THAT'S the grief here, not just going through some period of pressure, PARTICULARLY since it was their REJECTION of YHWH'S Messiah that brought on that period of pressure! "They will mourn FOR HIM!" "They will grieve FOR HIM!"

Edited June 30, 2017 by Retrobyter
to emphasize my confidence

[Retrobyter]

12 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi again Retro,

I agree with some of your groups, however the Body of Christ, believers who have been made like unto Christ, will definitely NOT be on earth, but ruling with Christ on His throne over all as promised. Jesus said -

`To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with me on my throne, as I overcame and sat down with my Father on His throne.` (Rev. 3: 21)

Marilyn.

Shalom, Marilyn.

Don't you think it would be kind of awkward for the Jewish Messiah (who is to be the ruler over the Jews, and then over all Israel,  forever) to be in "Heaven" during the One Thousand Years? Who's minding the store?

I mean, where will be HIS throne? Isn't His seat the throne of David His ancestor?

Luke 1:30-33

Edited June 30, 2017 by Retrobyter

[Marilyn C]

16 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Marilyn.

Therefore, your conclusion that there is a "spiritual dimension," containing "spiritual bodies" that are "not limited by earthly limitations" is faulty. It doesn't fit the facts of Scripture!

 

Hi Retro,

I will just focus on one point, and we can get back to the others later. Let`s just recap so we can focus.  We are looking at whether the Lord and the believers in their new bodies can go through dimensions. You say we don`t really know this and that when `Jesus came, the doors being shut, stood in their midst,` (John 20: 26) you believe that there could be many reasons for that.

I brought up that verse to show that the Lord has abilities far beyond what we have, and then concerning the transfiguration of Christ, I believe we would both agree that it revealed His Deity.

So now we are looking at our glorified bodies like unto Christ`s, but obviously not His Deity. I stated that - God`s word also tells us that `there is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.`  (1 Cor. 15: 44)  

Clearly the earthly body made of the dust returns to it, but we shall bear the image of the heavenly man. And that is like the Lord, who has a spiritual body that is not limited by earthly limitations.

Thus, (I concluded that) there is a natural dimension and a spiritual dimension. The Lord is quite able to operate in each as shown in His word.

You replied and brought up the scripture where the Lord said He had hands and feet, and that a spirit does not have flesh and bones. (Luke 24: 38 - 40) You say my `..conclusion that there is a "spiritual dimension," containing "spiritual bodies" that are "not limited by earthly limitations" is faulty. It doesn't fit the facts of Scripture! `

So I now reply saying our new gloried bodies will be -

-Not of the earth, dust, therefore not flesh and bones of the earth.

 

`The first man was of the earth, made of dust; the second man is the Lord from heaven. As was the man of dust, so also are those who are made of dust; and as is the heavenly man, so are those who are heavenly.  And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image o the heavenly man.` (1 Cor. 15: 47 - 49)

 

- Of heavenly material, substance. (2Cor. 5: 1)

-Not corruptible but incorruptible, (1 Cor. 15: 53)

-Not mortal but immortal. (1 Cor.15: 53)

 

God`s word also tells us that `there is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.`  (1 Cor. 15: 44)   This `spiritual body` or body with a spirit, is clothed from heaven as the Apostle Paul tells us.

`For we know that is our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven, if indeed, having been clothed, we shall not be found naked.

For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life.`` (2 Cor. 4: 1 - 4)

Thus I conclude that the glorified body of the Lord Jesus Christ, with flesh and bones, is from heaven and not flesh and bones as we have, from the earth, dust. The glorified body is a covering and structure over the spirit, so we will not be naked, as scripture says. What this bodies abilities are will be glorious and wonderful, and far beyond what we can do in these earthly bodies.

 There is more but will give you time to address this.

 

 Marilyn.

[Retrobyter]

17 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Retro,

I will just focus on one point, and we can get back to the others later. Let`s just recap so we can focus.  We are looking at whether the Lord and the believers in their new bodies can go through dimensions. You say we don`t really know this and that when `Jesus came, the doors being shut, stood in their midst,` (John 20: 26) you believe that there could be many reasons for that.

Shalom, Marilyn.

Fair enough. Do let's.

Let me stop you there and correct your vocabulary a bit. Recall Genesis 2:7:

Genesis 2:7
7 And the LORD God formed man (not the body of a man) of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul (Hebrew: nefesh coming from naafash, which means "to breathe air," an "air-breather").
KJV

As created beings, we ARE our bodies; we HAVE a "spirit" or a "breath," and as bodies that breathe, we are TEMPORARILY "air-breathers" or "souls." This is fundamental to our discussion; so, we may as well nip it in the bud here. Therefore, technically, they are not "believers in their new bodies"; they are "resurrected believers AS new bodies."

And, there CAN be many reasons for that because we are using our imaginations in speculating. There's only ONE WAY it was truly done, but we aren't TOLD HOW IT HAPPENED!

Quote

I brought up that verse to show that the Lord has abilities far beyond what we have, and then concerning the transfiguration of Christ, I believe we would both agree that it revealed His Deity.

Again, I must stop you. First, I'm not convinced that it "revealed His Deity." I believe it revealed that He would be the bright and shining King when He returns to this earth!

He IS the Messiah now. That means that He is CURRENTLY the One anointed by God to be Israel's King. It would be the same as calling Him the King-Apparent, similar to how we call our leader in these United States of America between winning an election and his inaugeration a President-Elect.

Notice, however, that He is NEVER called "King" throughout His first advent. The ONLY time He would refer to Himself as "king," was in His prophetic words whether within a parable or not.

Quote

So now we are looking at our glorified bodies like unto Christ`s, but obviously not His Deity. I stated that - God`s word also tells us that `there is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.`  (1 Cor. 15: 44)  

Clearly the earthly body made of the dust returns to it, but we shall bear the image of the heavenly man. And that is like the Lord, who has a spiritual body that is not limited by earthly limitations.

First, you are also concluding that the natural body and the spiritual body are not the same body. I make no such conclusion. They are two different TYPES of body, but they can be the SAME BODY at two different times! Here's where the Resurrection comes into play.

The Greek word translated "natural" is "psuchikos." The Greek word translated "spiritual" is "pneumatikos."

"Psuchikos" comes from the Greek word "psuchee," meaning "air-breather." It's the Greek word from which we get "psyche" and "psychology." 

And, "pneumatikos" comes from the Greek word "pneuma" meaning "wind." It's the Greek word from which we make our words "pneumatic" and pneumonia."

Therefore, the REAL difference between these two terms is the FORCE behind them. "Psuchikos" means "air-breathing"; "pneumatikos" means "wind-producing."

You're right that "the earthly body (each one of us) made of the dust returns to it." But, the "heavenly man" doesn't come until AFTER the Resurrection! It's when that earthly body (each one of us) is brought back to life (through an act of Creation). The "spiritual body" (each one of us after the Resurrection) will still have some of those "earthly limitations" apply to us; we'll just be a STRONGER, MORE ROBUST, IMMORTAL, INCORRUPTIBLE version of our former selves!

Quote

Thus, (I concluded that) there is a natural dimension and a spiritual dimension. The Lord is quite able to operate in each as shown in His word.

You replied and brought up the scripture where the Lord said He had hands and feet, and that a spirit does not have flesh and bones. (Luke 24: 38 - 40) You say my `..conclusion that there is a "spiritual dimension," containing "spiritual bodies" that are "not limited by earthly limitations" is faulty. It doesn't fit the facts of Scripture! `

Your conclusion is incorrect because of your terminology. It doesn't fit the facts of Scripture because you're not using the terms correctly, and that is primarily because of the definitions that you have implicitly applied to those terms. This is why the definitions of terms are so important. Learn to define your terms correctly, and it will affect your conclusions.

Quote

So I now reply saying our new gloried bodies will be -

-Not of the earth, dust, therefore not flesh and bones of the earth.

Again, this is, therefore, another faulty conclusion. Let's look at Paul's words at the end of the Resurrection Chapter:

1 Corinthians 15:51-54
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
KJV

Look at the simple facts:

1. Not all of us shall "sleep" (the long sleep of death).
2. All of us shall be changed (transformed; the Greek word is "allageesometha" meaning "we shall be made different").
3. Immediately after the trumpet sounds, the dead shall be raised to life incorruptible (meaning "no longer able to decay," and thus, also immortal, "no longer able to die").
4. We all shall be changed (which includes those of us who are still alive at the time of Resurrection; again, the Greek word is "allageesometha").

If we die before the Resurrection happens, we first shall be raised to life, being changed in the process.
If we are still alive when the Resurrection happens, we shall just be changed - made different.

 

Quote

`The first man was of the earth, made of dust; the second man is the Lord from heaven. As was the man of dust, so also are those who are made of dust; and as is the heavenly man, so are those who are heavenly.  And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image o the heavenly man.` (1 Cor. 15: 47 - 49)

 

- Of heavenly material, substance. (2Cor. 5: 1)

-Not corruptible but incorruptible, (1 Cor. 15: 53)

-Not mortal but immortal. (1 Cor.15: 53)

 

God`s word also tells us that `there is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.`  (1 Cor. 15: 44)   This `spiritual body` or body with a spirit, is clothed from heaven as the Apostle Paul tells us.

`For we know that is our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven, if indeed, having been clothed, we shall not be found naked.

For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life.`` (2 Cor. 4: 1 - 4)

Thus I conclude that the glorified body of the Lord Jesus Christ, with flesh and bones, is from heaven and not flesh and bones as we have, from the earth, dust. The glorified body is a covering and structure over the spirit, so we will not be naked, as scripture says. What this bodies abilities are will be glorious and wonderful, and far beyond what we can do in these earthly bodies.

 There is more but will give you time to address this.

 

 Marilyn.

I won't go any farther in this post, but thank you for bringing into this 2 Corinthians 4 and 5. I will answer that topic in a separate post.

[Marilyn C]

38 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

 

First, you are also concluding that the natural body and the spiritual body are not the same body. I make no such conclusion. They are two different TYPES of body, but they can be the SAME BODY at two different times!

You're right that "the earthly body (each one of us) made of the dust returns to it." But, the "heavenly man" doesn't come until AFTER the Resurrection! It's when that earthly body (each one of us) is brought back to life (through an act of Creation). The "spiritual body" (each one of us after the Resurrection) will still have some of those "earthly limitations" apply to us; we'll just be a STRONGER, MORE ROBUST, IMMORTAL, INCORRUPTIBLE version of our former selves!

Hi Retro,

Interesting discussion for if we, the believers of the Body of Christ will have different bodies then those of the new earth, then we are not of Israel.

`Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God;....` (1 Cor. 15: 50)

So we realise that our blood will not be in our new bodies, we will be energised by a different life force - `The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.` (1 Cor. 15: 45)

Marilyn.