No One is Hardwired to be Gay

[Neighbor]

17 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

Will gay people go to heaven? It's a question that not many pastors--even conservative ones--would want to answer. Because the answer isn't one that society wants to hear. And many pastors these days would rather avoid public persecution than speak the truth. 

But not Pastor John MacArthur of the evangelical Grace Community Church in Sun Valley, California. In a panel last month, the pastor was asked a very tough question concerning homosexuality, reports the Christian Post. And his answer was very bold, as he frankly answered that no one is gay.

"If you mean by that, 'That's some hardwiring,' no one is gay," he said. "People commit adultery, they commit sins of homosexuality, they lie, they steal, they cheat. That's like saying, 'You know, I keep robbing banks, but I'm a robber. I'm a bank robber. What am I gonna do? I'm a bank robber.' That is not an excuse for what you do."

"Are there certain kind of impulses that lead people in that direction? Yes. But I think one of the really deadly aspects of this is to let people define themselves as gay," he continued. "They are not gay any more than an adulterer is hardwired to be forced by his own nature to commit adultery. Those are all behavioral sins that are condemned in scripture. God didn't hardwire anybody in such a way that they are not responsible for certain behaviors."

MacArthur ended his answer by saying that calling people gay is actually doing them a disservice by "letting them define themselves by that sin."

http://www.faithfamilyamerica.com/pastor_john_macarthur_stuns_with_answer_to_gays_getting_into_heaven

John Is always right. Well almost always. I'll amen John MacArthur's response, and say  he's right you know.

( Now on music  I might beg to differ with him as I don't think it is necessarily true that all hymns and Christian music written after 1950  is part and parcel of the apostate church. But then everyone is a music critic. John may be wrong yet not often and not on  the gospel of Jesus. )

If I were to go so beyond my capacity, I might want to  add to John's statement that  God can and does darken the heart of sinners, and will do so to the point they cannot recover. So in that sense anyone can remain hardwired by God to their sins. I don't see that  is  excuse for any person, it is instead consequence issued to the sinner.

 I'm not nearly so sharp as John however, and will let his statement stand unchallenged, from here, while thinking  man is totally depraved and is capable of all sin from the beginning. Man is not repentant until first called out by the Holy Spirit, then  broken of heart for the total depravity within, and turned about by God in His mercy and grace alone.

 I might then think that perhaps all are born of, into, and unto  sin. "All sin and fall short of the glory of God". If not hardwired, wouldn't some of us by random chance alone be perfect or close to it ?

If each individual is hard wired  from the beginning to  sin, and yet no individual  has excuse to offer for sin, plus God darkens the heart of some past any redemption to come, is not the idea of being  hard wired valid?  

Yet God can and does, in the sacrifice made by Jesus, make full redemption from the consequence of sin. The circuitry of sin  to be cut by the Holy Spirit and the sinner against God to be turned about, in an instant. In that, God has overcome the impossible, He has reconciled that which cannot be reconciled, by taking on Himself the just consequence and punishment  for sin which is death.  In so doing He  has covered the sin of all in those that do believe on Jesus as Lord God and personal savior. There is hope  in the call by the Holy Spirit to awareness of Jesus and repentance from sin against God the father for all sinners.

The homosexual sin participant may too bow before Jesus and be saved from the consequence of sin, and go and sin no more- as any sinner can  upon the call to them by the Holy Spirit  to be redeemed by the sacrifice made by Jesus. All are common in our sin against God. We all have common need. That need is satisfied in Jesus through His ministry and sacrifice, that many may be presented before God the Father as saved and mature in Christ Jesus.

 Hardwired? Sure all are hardwired to total depravity, sin. Yet hope is certain too. It is in the name of Jesus that hope for victory over death is to be found certain.

Others see it in a differing light I know, but that is the way I make sense of it all. By God's mercy alone, is anyone saved to eternal life with him, praise God. He reconciles the unreconcilable. Perfection paying in full  the price of imperfection.

Edited July 8, 2017 by Neighbor

[enoob57]

The thing about homosexuality is that it rebels at very fabric of created purpose in life itself... and in this progression

Romans 1:18 (KJV)

[18] For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

[19] Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

[20] For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

[21] Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

[22] Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

[23] And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

[24] Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

[25] Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

[26] For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

[27] And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

I would say it is the hardest of soils to receive seed...

[Pudgenik]

8 hours ago, simplejeff said:

Strange indeed that a priest recognized this (it is true, yes), 

but it may be helpful to know that an exorcism is not needed.  Just throw out the demons the same way Jesus disciples did ,  no worries at all.   Yes, though, it requires the person WANTS to be set free - that's basically all it requires - willingness to be set free, instead of "WANTING" to be gay....  as long as demons are welcome and if the 'clean house' is not filled with GOD'S Spirit,  they won't leave or stay gone if driven out ....

Throwing out the demons as you put it is exactly what an excorsisms is. 

However, as he points out, the gays want to be gay . They like it. 

Plainly, like you said, they have to want to be cleansed

[Pudgenik]

8 hours ago, simplejeff said:

Think about this for a while,  --- how many jewel thieves flaunt their thievery openly, try to be approved by others and even (ICK!) respected,  and try to get other little children to be thieves also,  and try to get parades in their honor !?!?

Continue this same for ADULTERERS, who sleep with someone else's wife every week,  and want headline news how wonderful their life style is, and why everyone should accept it and even try it "it feels great" !

 

Then continue with IDOLATORS, worshiping other gods,   painting their bodies and faces with or without clothes on in parades honoring freedom and openness !?!?

 

See?  NO SIN should be promoted the way sexual perversion is promoted, ever.

Thank you, couldn't agree more

[hmbld]

Satan does deceive, conniving to convince that sin is not sin.  He has gained ground in the homosexual cause, with gay pride being promoted.  Sinners are desperate to deny sin.  Still, Jesus loves us, as we all have sinned.  Does one have to become sinless to come to Jesus?  No, come as you are, and the Holy Spirit will give you life.  While sin is condemned, isn't the message of hope and atonement more powerful than the fear of hell?  I knew I was a sinner, I needed to hear the answer to sin.

[enoob57]

3 hours ago, Cobalt1959 said:

Verse 24 is the key here.  This is the point people continually fail to understand, or grasp.  Homosexuality is such a severe disorder, mentally, that its practitioners have no personal identity outside of their sexual orientation.  Everything revolves around that sexual choice. They are completely consumed by their sexual desires.  This is why God says he "gives them over."  Their desire is so strong and so over-rides every other desire in their lives that God allows them to turn off their consciences and personal conviction and allows them to pursue their sin to it's logical conclusion.  Our society aids in this process by telling these people there is nothing wrong with them.

that is what I see as well... God can do anything! However He has also given us His Word to begin to know Him and His will in this place.

[notsolostsoul]

12 hours ago, Cobalt1959 said:

 that its practitioners have no personal identity outside of their sexual orientation.  Everything revolves around that sexual choice. They are completely consumed by their sexual desires.  

You surely do not know any gay people personally. Sex is not the only thing they identify with and the main reason they ask to be treated at any other human. 

Now those you see flaunting at the parade can be misconstrued to be about sex and sex alone based on the way they present themselves, but to categorize all Gays by your beliefs, is like saying all Blacks are savages, all whites are supremacist. Everyone who watches television condones sex selling items. 

Not all gays are about sex. The reason they fight for same sex marriage is so they can carry the same rules that apply to heterosexual marriage.

I know that is another topic but heterosexuashe don't get marriage right.

We can go back and forth on how Gays and heterosexuals sin alike. WE ALL SIN IN MANY WAYS.

My point is judgements are made based on what people think and no one tries to get to know. They are humans, just as murders, rapists, theives, adulters....etc. only God knowstill whom he will save. Even those who believe they are following scripture to a tee may not make it. Just cause you say and attempt to practice as best you can doesn't guarantee your spot. Because you may be sinning byou other actally loving your fellow human and secretly passing judgement on other, pusing others away from Christ and God. There are scripture where these individuals are worse off than the one they preach too. Check yourselves.

Remove those specks from your own!!!!! Not saying you personally Cobalt1959. Just one Christian lookiNguyen out for others.

Saying you love another and truly loving another are two totally different things. We must truly Love first before anything else. Jesus' commandment.

[OakWood]

12 hours ago, Cobalt1959 said:

Verse 24 is the key here.  This is the point people continually fail to understand, or grasp.  Homosexuality is such a severe disorder, mentally, that its practitioners have no personal identity outside of their sexual orientation.  Everything revolves around that sexual choice. They are completely consumed by their sexual desires.  This is why God says he "gives them over."  Their desire is so strong and so over-rides every other desire in their lives that God allows them to turn off their consciences and personal conviction and allows them to pursue their sin to it's logical conclusion.  Our society aids in this process by telling these people there is nothing wrong with them.

In the final stages, yes. You are right. Homosexuals are people the same as the rest of us. Not all gays are obsessed with sex, but that's only because we are all sinners and all of us are at different stages of our depravity. To put it another way - some of us struggle with sin, others love it and wallow in it.

There is a difference between the gay man or lesbian woman who leads a quiet life, and the depraved perverts who thrust their sexuality in everybody's faces at gay pride marches. However if a repeated and unrepentant sin is left unchecked, and a person gets to a point where he loves his sin so much, then God will finally "give him over".

Because we live in a society where we are told that homosexuality is normal, we are also seeing more and more gay men and women who have been 'given over' to their desires. There has been nothing to stop them.

[Guest shiloh357]

10 hours ago, notsolostsoul said:

You surely do not know any gay people personally. Sex is not the only thing they identify with and the main reason they ask to be treated at any other human. 

I know gay people personally, and have worked with them.  As long as they keep their sexual perversion to themselves and don't push it on others, we can live in peaceful co-existence.  But it is the radical faction that is quite numerous and is politically active and they do define themselves by their lifestyle and demand that society bend over backwards to accommodate their every whim and anyone who doesn't accept their lifestyle is the target for prosecution.

 

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Not all gays are about sex. The reason they fight for same sex marriage is so they can carry the same rules that apply to heterosexual marriage.

Marriage is defined by God, as God created it.  It is His first institution.  There is no such thing as gay marriage.   Marriage is between a man and a woman.   There is no other definition, no other kind of marriage.

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I know that is another topic but heterosexuashe don't get marriage right.

That is  irrelevant.   Hetrosexuals mess up when it comes to how they manage their marriages, but that doesn't have any bearing on how marriage is defined.

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We can go back and forth on how Gays and heterosexuals sin alike. WE ALL SIN IN MANY WAYS.

Yes, so what?  That doesn't change what marriage is.  I wonder why homosexuality is the only sin people justify that way?   I mean, when was the last time anyone said that we can't condemn adultery, or lying or stealing since we sin in other ways?

 

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My point is judgements are made based on what people think and no one tries to get to know. They are humans, just as murders, rapists, theives, adulters....etc. only God knowstill whom he will save.

This has nothing to do with how well we know a person.  I don't see anyone calling for this kind of "understanding" when it comes to lying, or pride, or taking God's Name in vain, or cheating on one's spouse.   Pointing out that homosexuality is a sin and an abomination to God isn't dehumanizing anyone.   It is pointing to God's righteous standard AND it is pointing out that homosexuality violates God's plan for marriage and human sexuality.

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Even those who believe they are following scripture to a tee may not make it. Just cause you say and attempt to practice as best you can doesn't guarantee your spot.

No one is perfect, not even believers, but that does not bar us from pointing to God's righteous standard where human sexuality is concerned.  You are erecting false standards in your attempt to run interference on behalf of gay people.

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Saying you love another and truly loving another are two totally different things. We must truly Love first before anything else. Jesus' commandment.

 

The worst things to ever happen to the homosexual are "Christians"  who "love"  them to the point that they are willing to keep homosexuals comfortable in their sin and lead them to be believe that homosexuality doesn't need to be repented of and forsaken.  You are going to ensure that they will end up in hell.

[Guest shiloh357]

1 hour ago, Redemption79 said:

I am confused by what you have written here

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Sin IS BIOLOGICAL

Roman 5 12

Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned

I don't see what is so confusing. Sin is spiritual.   It is spiritual separation from God.   Sin is worked out in our physical lives, but sin is not "biological.

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even for us born again believers, we continue to struggle with our sinful natures.

Because we are willfully choosing to be disobedient.

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so we are all HARDWIRED to want to sin, but we do have the choice of not to

either way, homosexual attraction in itself is not a sin, just like heterosexual attraction in itself is not a sin.

 

Wrong.  Heterosexual attraction is created by God; it is part of our design.  Homosexual attraction IS a sin because it is a perversion of how God has designed us.

 

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it is homosexual behaviors AND heterosexual sexual behaviors outside the confinement of the marriage that is sin

  Heterosexuality is God's design for marriage.    It is true that there are perverted immoral expressions of heterosexuality such as sex before marriage and adultery.   But there are no  expressions of homosexuality that are not sinful and there are no homosexual behaviors that are not sinful.  From desire to practice, homosexuality is an abomination before God and those who practice it have no place in the Kingdom of God.

 

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I do think homosexual sexual orientation is probably due to deformation in the brain or genes

either way a person who struggles with homosexual attraction is not sinning  as long as they honor God for the rest of their lives.

 

No, that is wrong as well.  Homosexuality has nothing to do with genes.  That is junk science.   Homosexuality is a sin, God condemns it as an abomination and the Bible has a working principle that sin begins with desire long before it is carried out in the flesh.   God hates the sinful desire as much as he hates the act of sin, itself.

And no one would ever look at any other sin and make the argument you are making.  Non would argue that it's okay to want to murder someone as long as you honor God with the rest of your life.   No one would argue that a someone who wants to molest children is fine as long as he honors God with the rest of his life.   Your line of argumentation is simply untenable.

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just like an unmarried heterosexuals who struggles with heterosexual desires is not sinning as long as they honor God for the rest of their lives.

No, that is a good comparison at all.  If an unmarried man is struggling with immorality, it is still a sin that he needs to take to the Lord and get it dealt with.   It is just as sinful for man to struggle with lusting after woman as it is for gay person to struggle with wanting to act on his sinful desire.  Both are just as sinful.

 

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either way,  I think you might want to spent less time dwelling on this issue and maybe more time on your relationship with God and allow His love and light to shine through you so people will want to get to know Him

 I will spend as much time as I am led to spend on it, whether you like it or not.