6 days Creation

[Guest shiloh357]

2 hours ago, George said:

Just throwing some of my 2 cents in here.  I certainly don't want to steer off topic.  There was an Orthodox Jew -- a believer in BOTH a young earth -- and at the same time how the universe appears to be 15.5 billion years old using Einstein's theory of relativity.  If you've not watched it, it may help with how both may be true in your mind.

 

I don't think it is wise to turn to nonbelievers for help with theology and biblical interpretation.

 

[Guest shiloh357]

1 hour ago, one.opinion said:

In the context of John 5, Jesus is specifically addressing Jews critical of Jesus actions on a Sabbath day - instructing a man he had just healed to take up his things and walk. The admonition was directed at those not believing he was the prophesied Savior, not as specific instruction to read everything Moses wrote literally.

Everything Moses wrote MUST be interpreted literally.   That is the only form of interpretation that exists in literary analysis.  There is no such thing as any other kind of interpretation.  No matter what text you are dealing with, the task of interpretation is to arrive at the literal meaning of the text, and the literal meaning is always supplied by the author.

[one.opinion]

28 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

Everything Moses wrote MUST be interpreted literally.   That is the only form of interpretation that exists in literary analysis.  There is no such thing as any other kind of interpretation.  No matter what text you are dealing with, the task of interpretation is to arrive at the literal meaning of the text, and the literal meaning is always supplied by the author.

MUST? Why? What do you make of verses like "Do not mate different kinds of animals. Do not plant your field with two kinds of seed. Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" (Leviticus 19:19) Do you ever wear cotton/poly blend shirts? The literal instructions are pretty clear here.

[Guest shiloh357]

21 minutes ago, one.opinion said:

MUST? Why? What do you make of verses like "Do not mate different kinds of animals. Do not plant your field with two kinds of seed. Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" (Leviticus 19:19) Do you ever wear cotton/poly blend shirts? The literal instructions are pretty clear here.

Not every commandment is meant for all people for all time.  But yes, they are meant to be taken literally.

[one.opinion]

2 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

Not every commandment is meant for all people for all time.  But yes, they are meant to be taken literally.

Where do you make the distinction between God's intended audience and the modern person? Are you suggesting that we should consider context when reading the Bible?

What about Genesis 2:16-17? "16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, “You may surely eat of every tree of the garden, 17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.” Why did Adam survive that day?

[Enoch2021]

4 hours ago, one.opinion said:

Of course there are new discoveries to be made, but again, a vast majority of scientists that study these things believe that there is indeed junk DNA, and quite a lot of it!

1.  As Illustrated previously, your appeals to Junk DNA are tantamount to appealing to Phlogiston at this point.

2.  Most of the "scientists" as you call them without basis, aren't Scientists.

3.  Vast Majority is an Appeal to Consensus (Fallacy).

4.  

"People arrogantly called parts of the human genome that don't code for protein 'junk DNA'...today junk DNA is where all the discoveries are happening and we know that Junk DNA is CRUCIAL for gene regulation."

Craig Venter PhD (Genomics Pioneer NIH, Celera Genomics)

https://www.evolutionnews.org/ 2013/10/craig_venter_in/

 

Dr John Mattick, director of the Institute for Molecular Bioscience at the University of Queensland, 'Junk DNA'...

‘The failure to recognize the full implications of this—particularly the possibility that the intervening noncoding sequences may be transmitting parallel information … may well go down as one of the biggest mistakes in the history of molecular biology.’
Mattick, J., cited in: Gibbs, W.W., The unseen genome: gems among the junk, Scientific American 289(5):26–33, November 2003; pp. 29–30

 

"The term ‘junk DNA’ is a reflection of our ignorance.” 

Gretchen Vogel, “Why Sequence the Junk?” Science, Vol. 291, 16 February 2001, p. 1184.

 

What Junk DNA? It’s an Operating System:

Noncoding gene sequences control gene expression and influence disease processes.
Patricia Fitzpatrick Dimond, Ph.D
http://www.genengnews.com/gen- exclusives/what-junk-dna-its-a n-operating-system/77899872

 

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Expert consensus really is important

It's a Fallacy -- Appeal to Consensus.

 

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there are definite limits to which the "appealing to consensus is a logical fallacy" argument is useful.

There's no limit or scale, it's simply a Logical Fallacy...and the Antithesis of "Science".

 

regards

[Guest shiloh357]

Just now, one.opinion said:

Where do you make the distinction between God's intended audience and the modern person? Are you suggesting that we should consider context when reading the Bible?

Every Scripture has two "addresses.:  It's kind of like the mailing address and the return address on an envelope.  There is a sender and a recipient.  Every verse has a sender and a recipient and it is not hard to tell who the intended recipient is, if you read the text, competently.

Context is another issue, but yes context is king in biblical interpretation.

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What about Genesis 2:16-17? "16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, “You may surely eat of every tree of the garden, 17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.” Why did Adam survive that day?

From the Hebrew, the text says, "for in the day you eat thereof, dying you shall die."  The Hebrew indicates process of death.  In the moment Adam ate, he began the downward process of aging and deterioration that would end in his death.

[Enoch2021]

4 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

Wrong.  The Bible doesn't teach either one of those concepts. 

Wrong. The Bible teaches Both quite clearly and emphatically.

 

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You cannot find a flat earth anywhere in the Bible. 

Found them...

Flat:

(Isaiah 40-22 ISV) "He's the one who sits above the DISK OF THE EARTH, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers. He's the one who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them like a tent to live in".

 

(Revelation 20:9) "And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them."

 

"Breadth" = "Platos" Strong's Greek Definition G4114 --- from G4116 (plat'-oos)..: Spread out "FLAT".

 

The Passage should read: "And they went up on the Flat Earth and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them."

 

 

(Isaiah 40:21-22) "Have ye not known? have ye not heard? hath it not been told you from the beginning? have ye not understood from the foundations of the earth? {22} It is he that sitteth upon the CIRCLE of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:"

 

(Proverbs 8:27-28) "When He established the heavens, I was there, When He inscribed a CIRCLE ON the face of the deep, When He made firm the skies above, When the springs of the deep became fixed,

 

"Circle" = "chuwg" Strong's Hebrew Definition # 02329...

1) circle, circuit, compass.

 

The Problem (for you)...

 

(Isaiah 22:18) "He will surely violently turn and toss thee like a BALL into a large country: there shalt thou die, and there the chariots of thy glory shall be the shame of thy lord's house."

 

"Ball" = "Duwr" Strong's Hebrew # 01754...

1. Ball 2. Ball, Circle.

 

If Isaiah wanted to tell you the Earth was a BALL "Sphere", he would have simply SAID SO... ("duwr") !! And, how can you "Inscribe" a "Sphere" ON anything, pray tell??

 

"Face of the (whole) Earth" is used 35 Times in Scripture; can you show us the Face of a Sphere...?

 

(Job 38:4-7) "Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. {5} Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? {6} Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; {7} When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?"

 

How can you STRETCH THE LINE on a Curved Foundation??  

 

Would you like to see "Non-Spinning" (IMMOVABLE), Domed, and Geocentric??  Say "When".

 

And Finally...

*ps.  Please post ONE Scripture even remotely implying Spinning-Ball Heliocentrism --aka Sun Worship ...???*

 

 

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Flat earth and geocentricism are the product of sloppy hermeneutics, and a less than literal interpretation of the Bible.

 Huh??  You just said...

4 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

Those arguments stem from a hyper-literal, face-value approach and is not rooted in the authority of Scripture.

How can something be Less than Literal and Hyper-Literal at the same time, pray tell ??

 

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So yes, I reject those and the Bible is still my final authority because I know what it teaches and proper interpretative skills tells me that the Bible presents no cosmology that confirms either a flat earth or a geocentric position.

ALL of Scripture Confirms a Flat Earth and a Geocentric Position.

 

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Genesis and the Gospel are connected.  All biblical doctrines including the doctrine of salvation and the doctrine of creation are intrinsically linked.   If you can't trust the Bible on the matters of creation, the origin of sin, etc., then it erodes faith in the other doctrines that are connected to those historical claims.    The doctrines of scripture intersect and build upon each other. 

There are no unimportant doctrines.  Creation is every bit as important as salvation.

 

100% Correct

 

regards

[Guest shiloh357]

Just now, Enoch2021 said:

 

 

ALL of Scripture Confirms a Flat Earth and a Geocentric Position.

 

To you, maybe.  Not to those of us who are actually competent to handle the Bible in a responsible way.

[Enoch2021]

1 minute ago, shiloh357 said:

To you, maybe.  Not to those of us who are actually competent to handle the Bible in a responsible way.

1.  Begging The Question (Fallacy): 'those of us who are actually competent'.

Show us "your" Competence and Responsibility, by (AGAIN)...

Posting ONE Scripture REMOTELY implying a Spinning-Ball Heliocentric (aka: Sun Worshiping) position...?  Just ONE please...?

 

2.  Dr. Michael S. Heiser (Renowned Bible Scholar)...

"The issue is how “literal creationists” are actually only selective literalists (or, as I would call them, “inconsistent literalists”). If one was truly consistent in interpreting the creation description in Genesis 1 at face value (along with other creation descriptions in both testaments), you’d come out with a round, flat earth, complete with solid dome over the earth, and earth supported by pillars, with Sheol underneath, etc.  But creationists who claim the literal mantel don’t do that, since the results are clearly non-scientific. My view, as readers know, is that we ought to simply let the text say what it says, and let it be what it is. It was God’s choice to prompt people living millennia ago to produce this thing we call the Bible, and so we dishonor it when we impose our own interpretive context on it. Our modern evangelical contexts are alien to the Bible. Frankly, any context other than the context in which the biblical writers were moved to write is foreign to the Bible.  So, who’s the literalist now?"  

http://drmsh.com/interpreting- genesis-1-literalist/

 

Are you saying Dr. Micheal Heiser isn't Competent?

 

ps. Something interesting (Things that make you go Hmmm ??), the same people screaming from the rooftops: evolution, 'big bangs', multiverses, billions of years, "There is No God" ect ect, are the very same people telling you... you live on a "Spinning-Ball".    

 

regards