abraham and issac?

[Sister]

1 hour ago, georgie_02 said:

thanks again 21 ^'Those who cleanse themselves from the latter will be instruments for special purposes, made holy, useful to the Master and prepared to do any good work' can abraham sin if he is holly?

Hi georgie

The bible says that no man is without sin.  Christ is the only one who never sinned.  Abraham would of sinned in his lifetime because it's impossible to not sin, but his worship was perfect.  Whatever sins he did is forgiven for he is a chosen vessel of honour.  He would be the gold, not the silver.

God has many favourites,....Enoch, Noah, Moses, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph etc and all the prophets, but I personally think that Abraham went through the hardest trial and is used as an example of perfect faith amongst men besides Christ.

No one else ever received this blessing, so he is highly favored in my opinion.

 Genesis 26:4   And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;

  Genesis 26:5   Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

 

[JohnD]

I found satisfaction in studying Genesis 22 the how the who the why.

Who told Abraham to do this?

Genesis 22:11–12 (AV)
11 And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I.
12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for NOW I KNOW that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from ME.

Genesis 22:1 (AV)
1 And it came to pass after these things, that GOD did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am.

Angel simply means one who is sent / messenger. Who in this case is obviously God. So, God sent God. We later come to understand that God the Father sends God the Son and God the Holy Spirit into the world. I find it fascinating to see the Bible state that God the Son does not know all that God the Father knows (Matthew 24:36 Acts 1:7) or that the Holy Spirit has to search the mind of God the Father (1 Corinthians 2:10) rather than simultaneously knowing all that each individual in the Godhead knows.

The scripture teaches that the three ARE the one God but not that each are three identical parts of the whole. I will not go as far to say The Father is the Omniscience the Son is the Omnipotence and the Spirit the Omnipresence as some have determined... it [might be true] but I am not yet to that point of being convinced by it. ← which is evidence of my own fallibility either way.  But each are unique. That is for certain. The Father is the Authority, the Son the Creator, the Holy Spirit the Revealor  (Author of the Bible drawing all to Christ). All of which may only be predetermine functionality rather than nature / ability. 

____________________________________________

I offer a theory that I hold to be (possible). Possible. And I am ready to strike it down with extreme prejudice if it is proven biblically incorrect. I defer to the Word of God in person and in print. Always.

But what IF (note I said IF)

What IF God is so far above us in the physical realm and even the spirit realm (above the angels) that there is a kind of disconnect? Not like the deist deus absconditus but a superiority neither God nor man can relate to (and maybe even angels). And to abridge that gap God the Word and God the Holy Spirit altered themselves (stepped down as it were) not from deity itself but aspects of deity. From this all knowing all powerful ever present everywhere to relate to more temporal finite beings. 

That only the Father remains in this above it all state. And that through the Lord Jesus and the Holy Spirit can we relate with the Father and he with us.

______________________________________________

If this is true it might explain much (but it might complicate things certainly if it is wrong).

But what if God the Word called upon Abraham to prove humanity worthy of the awful sacrifice he himself would go through with?

You will recall he stopped Abraham from going through with sacrificing Isaac.

Maybe he (Jesus preincarnate) needed this encouragement (in his full deity see Genesis 22:1) relation-to-mankind state.

And the whole chapter is (as all scripture actually is) prophetic about the person and sacrifice of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Genesis 22 the akedah is very detailed in prophecy about his sacrifice on the cross.

[ravindran]

This is quite an interesting question! God "tested" Abraham. Why God had to test Abraham? It was not for God to know how faithful Abraham is. It was more to establish Abraham's faithfulness as a fact. To give credibility to his faith. That's why God tested Abraham. Just like why kids have tests at the end of school year. The kids have learned everything. But then they officially pass the test to show others their credibility. If this event did not appear, God would still know how faithful Abraham is. But Abraham himself would not have realized! And we would not have known.

God also used Abraham to show some big things.

Through Melchizadek - Tithing in OT

Through this event - How Jesus would go to Cross

[georgie_02]

thanks ravindran and johnD  

[HAZARD]

On ‎23‎/‎08‎/‎2017 at 8:20 AM, georgie_02 said:

thank you for the help :-) i thought god didnt have favourites?

God does not have favourites. God chooses people to carry out certain things to further His plan for mankind. If the one He chooses fails, God then chooses another.

Acts 10: 34-35, Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
V. 35, But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

[georgie_02]

9 minutes ago, HAZARD said:

God does not have favourites. God chooses people do carry out certain things to further His plan for mankind. If the one He chooses fails, God then chooses another.

Acts 10: 34-35, Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
V. 35, But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

makes sense ty for the help hazard 

[HAZARD]

1 minute ago, georgie_02 said:

makes sense ty for the help hazard 

My pleasure, God bless you my friend.

[georgie_02]

9 minutes ago, HAZARD said:

My pleasure, God bless you my friend.

ty god bless you as well

[George]

This is a post I posted in the Study Forums that fits the question fully.

Shalom everyone,

As we continue this series the next obvious sign of the resurrection in the Old Testament is the sign of Isaac and Abraham.

Gen 22:1  After these things God tested Abraham and said to him, "Abraham!" And he said, "Here I am."
Gen 22:2  He said, "Take your son, your only son Isaac, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I shall tell you."

So God "tests" Abraham and as a perfect picture of the coming sacrifice of God's only begotten Son (Yeshua - Jesus) God instructs Issac to go and sacrifice his son, Issac.  Where does he say to offer him?  On Moriah -- the exact location of the Temple Mount.

Gen 22:3  So Abraham rose early in the morning, saddled his donkey, and took two of his young men with him, and his son Isaac. And he cut the wood for the burnt offering and arose and went to the place of which God had told him.

Notice Abraham didn't waste any time -- he left the next morning!  And arrived on a donkey -- just as Yeshua triumphantly entered Jerusalem on a donkey!

Gen 22:4  On the third day Abraham lifted up his eyes and saw the place from afar.

You'll notice over and over again the number 3 in connection to the resurrection throughout the Old Covenant.

Gen 22:5  Then Abraham said to his young men, "Stay here with the donkey; I and the boy will go over there and worship and come again to you."

At this point, we get an understanding that Abraham knew something -- he wasn't sure about the test -- but he did expect to RETURN with Issac.

Heb 11:17  By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises was in the act of offering up his only son,
Heb 11:18  of whom it was said, "Through Isaac shall your offspring be named."
Heb 11:19  He considered that God was able even to raise him from the dead, from which, figuratively speaking, he did receive him back.

Abraham wasn't sure what God was going to do -- but He "considered" even at this point the -- RESURRECTION!

Gen 22:6  And Abraham took the wood of the burnt offering and laid it on Isaac his son. And he took in his hand the fire and the knife. So they went both of them together.

This is a perfect picture of the cross that Yeshua would carry before his crucifixion.

Gen 22:7  And Isaac said to his father Abraham, "My father!" And he said, "Here I am, my son." He said, "Behold, the fire and the wood, but where is the lamb for a burnt offering?"
Gen 22:8  Abraham said, "God will provide for himself the lamb for a burnt offering, my son." So they went both of them together.

So even here, God would provide the Lamb for himself -- just as the Lamb of God was provided for the world.

Gen 22:9  When they came to the place of which God had told him, Abraham built the altar there and laid the wood in order and bound Isaac his son and laid him on the altar, on top of the wood.

This is the Hebrew understanding of "Akeda" which is the "binding of Isaac" and its root comes from the Hebrew word, akod, which meant -- bound but it literally means "ringed" or "striped".  One of the ancient scholars of Israel, Rashi, explained the use of the verb as "stripe-like marks" left by ropes on the ankles and wrists of a person who is tied hand and foot.  Thus the reason for the word "akeda" for the naming of the story is named after the marks that were left on Issac's body!   A perfect picture of the fact that Yeshua still had marks even after his resurrection.  As Thomas only believed after reaching his hands into his side -- and his wrists -- a perfect picture even to the Hebraic understanding of word -- akeda.  As Issac was laid on the wood -- so Yeshua was laid on the cross.

Gen 22:10  Then Abraham reached out his hand and took the knife to slaughter his son.
Gen 22:11  But the angel of the LORD called to him from heaven and said, "Abraham, Abraham!" And he said, "Here I am."
Gen 22:12  He said, "Do not lay your hand on the boy or do anything to him, for now I know that you fear God, seeing you have not withheld your son, your only son, from me."
Gen 22:13  And Abraham lifted up his eyes and looked, and behold, behind him was a ram, caught in a thicket by his horns. And Abraham went and took the ram and offered it up as a burnt offering instead of his son.
Gen 22:14  So Abraham called the name of that place, "The LORD will provide"; as it is said to this day, "On the mount of the LORD it shall be provided."

Issac by this age was strong enough to fight off his father Abraham who was well into his age -- yet Issac was willing to lay down his life -- just as Yeshua was willing to lay His life down for His Father.  Even the exact location of the sacrifice would be known years later as the PLACE where the Lord would provide His Son as the "lamb of God" for the sins of the world!

Gen 22:15  And the angel of the LORD called to Abraham a second time from heaven
Gen 22:16  and said, "By myself I have sworn, declares the LORD, because you have done this and have not withheld your son, your only son,
Gen 22:17  I will surely bless you, and I will surely multiply your offspring as the stars of heaven and as the sand that is on the seashore. And your offspring shall possess the gate of his enemies,
Gen 22:18  and in your offspring shall all the nations of the earth be blessed, because you have obeyed my voice."

The sacrifice of Issac was connected to the blessings of the nations -- and years later the sacrifice of Yeshua -- is the blessing to the nations!

I'm sure there's more comparisons, but this summarizes the story of Abraham and Issac and the connection to the Resurrection,

Your brother in the Lord with much agape love,

George

[JohnD]

On 8/20/2017 at 7:24 AM, georgie_02 said:

why did god ask abraham to sacrifice his son issac as a test of faith? 

If you read Genesis 22 carefully, you will see it was the Angel of the Lord that put Abraham to the test. The Angel of the Lord being (I am convinced) God the Word who became God the Son Jesus in the incarnation. "Now I know..."

God the Word being the lone Creator, taking upon himself a second (human) nature for all eternity to come, subjecting that human nature to pay the awful sin debt for humanity at the hand of humanity, dying (remember this is an eternal being who did not have to taste death), raising from the dead... I'm sure there were times he wondered if was all worth it. When the LORD returns will he find faith on the Earth? Again? He found faith in Abraham. Question is, we who have directly benefited from the cross of Christ, will we be as faithful as Abraham was who had to wait centuries for the benefits of the cross?

Just realized I already answered this. Sorry for the repeat, but the question I ended with in this post I feel led to leave here. God bless!