Spiritual or Physical Death

[Running Gator]

It seems there are a lot of different views on this topic.  thanks to you all for your replies 

[other one]

1 minute ago, shiloh357 said:

No, it's sound theology and Scripture you can't refute.

Adam and Eve were immortal, so eating from the tree of life could not impart to them what they already had.  God was their source of life, not the tree.   When they sinned they were separated from the life of God, himself.  

 

where does scripture say that Adam and Eve were immortal?

[Guest shiloh357]

1 minute ago, other one said:

where does scripture say that Adam and Eve were immortal?

The fact that they were cursed with death for eating of the tree of the knowledge appears to indicate that they were not going to die prior to eating from it.  Physical death was part of curse:  "Dust you are and to dust you shall return."   If they were already slated to die physically, then cursing them with physical death doesn't make sense, does it?

Physical death would only be a curse to an immortal person.    Not only that, but when sin is eradicated in the future, we know that physical death will be no more, so we get a good idea of what life was like before sin existed, by examining what life will be when sin no longer exists, and part of that is the absence of physical death.

[other one]

3 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

What I am saying is that when Adam fell, sin and death (spiritual and physical) entered into the world.  With the eradication of sin (which has not happened yet), there will be no more death (spiritual or physical).   So we know that physical death did not exist prior to the fall since sin did not exist prior to the fall.

and it may well be that spiritual death entered into the world and that is what was being talked about.   When you are spiritually unhooked from God you can't live forever.   May be that if you don't eat of the tree of life you can't live past 950 years.   As I remember the tree of life will be in New Jerusalem....  what's that all about.

[Guest shiloh357]

Just now, other one said:

and it may well be that spiritual death entered into the world and that is what was being talked about.  

Yes, Adam died spiritually and that should go without saying, but physical death is obviously a part of that curse.

Quote

When you are spiritually unhooked from God you can't live forever.   May be that if you don't eat of the tree of life you can't live past 950 years.   As I remember the tree of life will be in New Jerusalem....  what's that all about.

God was evidently the source of their life, not the tree of life.  To make the tree of life the source of their life and not God would be tantamount to worshiping the creation instead of the Creator.   We don't know the exact purpose of the tree of life prior to the fall.   And it is always wise to be silent where the Bible is silent.

[other one]

12 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

Yes, Adam died spiritually and that should go without saying, but physical death is obviously a part of that curse.

God was evidently the source of their life, not the tree of life.  To make the tree of life the source of their life and not God would be tantamount to worshiping the creation instead of the Creator.   We don't know the exact purpose of the tree of life prior to the fall.   And it is always wise to be silent where the Bible is silent.

only because they were separated from God.....   when that happens our bodies start to die....     I can take that out of scripture as easily as you can it brought on death.  .     Just depends on your total outlook as to how things were originally set up.

[Guest shiloh357]

2 minutes ago, other one said:

only because they were separated from God.....   when that happens our bodies start to die....     I can take that out of scripture as easily as you can it brought on death.  .     Just depends on your total outlook as to how things were originally set up.

Yes,when they were separated from God, their bodies started to die.  That's what I said...

the Bible does not give us enough light to have an outlook about the role of the tree of life, and we need to be content with that and not try to fill in the blanks.

The way things were set up was that everything was perfect and God is not the author of imperfection.   God said everything was "very good."  In Hebrew, its "tov meod"  which carries the connotation of perfection, as good as it can be.  Death is not good, and God doesn't ever call death "good."  Death entered into the world per Adam's disobedience (Rom. 5:12-21) and Jesus' death on the cross paid the full penalty of Adam's disobedience and the curse of sin/death that hangs over the corporate head of humanity.

Everything about salvation history is about restoring man back to Eden, so to speak, to restore the relationship that was broken in the garden and to restore man back to his pre-sin condition.   Actually, what we will have in the New Heavens and New Earth will actually be better than what Adam had.

[other one]

1 minute ago, shiloh357 said:

Yes,when they were separated from God, their bodies started to die.  That's what I said...

the Bible does not give us enough light to have an outlook about the role of the tree of life, and we need to be content with that and not try to fill in the blanks.

The way things were set up was that everything was perfect and God is not the author of imperfection.   God said everything was "very good."  In Hebrew, its "tov meod"  which carries the connotation of perfection, as good as it can be.  Death is not good, and God doesn't ever call death "good."  Death entered into the world per Adam's disobedience (Rom. 5:12-21) and Jesus' death on the cross paid the full penalty of Adam's disobedience and the curse of sin/death that hangs over the corporate head of humanity.

Everything about salvation history is about restoring man back to Eden, so to speak, to restore the relationship that was broken in the garden and to restore man back to his pre-sin condition.   Actually, what we will have in the New Heavens and New Earth will actually be better than what Adam had.

I would say that the way things were/are set up if we loose the connection with God we normally gradually die and was set up that way from the beginning.

I also think it was intended to be that way from the start.

[Guest shiloh357]

Just now, other one said:

I would say that the way things were/are set up if we loose the connection with God we normally gradually die and was set up that way from the beginning.

I also think it was intended to be that way from the start.

You think it was intended that we would lose connection with God and die?

[other one]

Just now, shiloh357 said:

You think it was intended that we would lose connection with God and die?

I think it was intended that they eat of the fruit....   so yes I do.