Don't point your canon at me please.

[Justin Adams]

Just now, Davida said:

But you claim that God has "inspired" other books- by what are you saying that?  playing the odds? 

Pity those that do not recognize that the Bible is the Word of God- singularly.

I claim nothing of the sort. I am saying that the Church Fathers and other auspicious persons claimed that some of the books that were later left out were inspired. If they did so why should I not read them? Why should you not read them? Or have we been so indoctrinated that fear of them forbid this?

I quote another brother on this thread: "Remember, when Paul wrote that all Scripture is God-breathed, the Jews had not even finalized their canon for the Old Testament. We have no knowledge of what Paul included in his personal canon of the Scriptures." (WilliamL)

The WORD of God (singularity is Yeshua - Jesus). 

[Guest shiloh357]

28 minutes ago, Justin Adams said:

Ok Brother. That is just fine by me. What you believe is what you believe; 
Namely: "The Holy Spirit only inspired 66 books and those are the Scriptures He uses to guide us."

I would hesitate to tell anyone WHAT to believe and WHY they should believe it because belief is a strictly personal thing. I would however suggest sources that have helped me understand a great deal. By this I am suggesting, based on reason. Never would I demand that another believe anything. They must study for themselves. I would be careful not to assert that what I believe is the only way the Holy Spirit can guide Christians, and those who have not yet made a conscious decision to be Saved. As I mentioned (but you did not include in your rebuttal);
Namely: "In 1600's the RCC removed some books. Originally in the 1611 bible there were 80. In the Ethiopian canon there are 88."

What I believe is the truth and the manuscript evidence supports it.   For some reason, the Bible isn't enough for you.   You make your appeal based on men and what men claim.  My views are based on the solid rock of Scripture.  

[Justin Adams]

And I still think that God has inspired many books. I am unsure of the full extent of them so can not categorically say which ones. I do not intend to catalog them as you do because I do not know. So I do not categorically 'claim' any particular books by "playing the odds" as you (so kindly) put it. However, in the post in question I am referring to the Fathers and I did not 'claim' any of them in particular. My prior argument is that whatever I claim, or you claim, does not effect the fact of the matter that many others CLAIMED there were 'other' book that are inspired. 

My 'claim' is that others with more knowledge and understanding made claims of Inspiration. I can make no such claims myself, but I can "REPORT THOSE VIEWS". So in short, my unsubstantiated 'claim' is that there are other books to examine. Ergo; I claim other sources of Inspiration. Or to put it another way, "to call for" or "require attention".(Merriam/Webster)

Furthermore, my understanding of today is that God cannot be limited by His Creation.

[Guest shiloh357]

13 minutes ago, Justin Adams said:

And I still think that God has inspired many books.

Based on what?

Quote

I am unsure of the full extent of them so can not categorically say which ones. I do not intend to catalog them as you do because I do not know.

LOL, you don't know which ones, but you are so sure He inspired them...  That's rich.

 

Quote

 

So I do not categorically 'claim' any particular books by "playing the odds" as you (so kindly) put it. However, in the post in question I am referring to the Fathers and I did not 'claim' any of them in particular. My prior argument is that whatever I claim, or you claim, does not effect the fact of the matter that many others CLAIMED there were 'other' book that are inspired. 

My 'claim' is that others with more knowledge and understanding made claims of Inspiration. I can make no such claims myself, but I can "REPORT THOSE VIEWS". So in short, my unsubstantiated 'claim' is that there are other books to examine. Ergo; I claim other sources of Inspiration. Or to put it another way, "to call for" or "require attention".(Merriam/Webster)

Furthermore, my understanding of today is that God cannot be limited by His Creation.

 

Do you even know how claims for inspiration are tested?

[Justin Adams]

11 hours ago, Abdicate said:

I sense in my spirit a desire from you for the truth. Continue to seek Him in everything because He is there, from the Laminins in our cells to the ancient meanings of the constellations. Everything points to Jesus that is true. I love mathematics and there's no greater wonder that the power of Genesis 1:1 in math. Of course you only learn these things when you go to the originals. ALL translations are flawed - it's the nature of languages.

You are perceptive and astute. The creation bears witness to the Greatness of our Lord God. It is self-evident. Even the finest words, or most wonderful canvases, cannot touch the multi-dimensional wonder of HE Who Reigns Forever and Ever. Even the simplest of one-celled organisms is more complex than our space shuttle.
Truth is my search. As C.S. Lewis put it, "the unseen real". There is order in All The Creations - even order in those parts that seemed to have fallen or failed. He who Created all from nothing has set His order in motion. All that the detractors can do is to attempt to confuse that order and subvert it. Until He Wills it to be different, His order will stand.

Revelation 13:8 states: “… And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.”

[WilliamL]

On 9/26/2017 at 12:28 PM, Davida said:

The Bible testifies of itself- yes in many scriptures if we have eyes to see and ears to hear.

Hebrews 4:12 "For the Word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart."

2 Timothy 3:16 "All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness"

But these verses were written BEFORE there ever was "the Bible." Some of the NT had not yet even been written. Yet you presume the divine authority to say that these verses testify that "the Bible testifies of itself." There is no basis in logic for your statement, only the personal belief of yourself and others.

This whole issue has been discussed many times in this forum, sometimes in the Controversial Issues section. Here are some basic biblical principles to consider when discussing the topic:

Rom 14:1 Receive one who is weak in the faith, but not to disputes over doubtful things. ...4 Who are you to judge another’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.

1 Cor 12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: 8 for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, ...10 to another discerning of spirits...

Heb 5:12 For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the first principles of the oracles of God; and you have come to need milk and not solid food. 13 For everyone who partakes only of milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, for he is a babe. 14 But solid food belongs to those who are of full age, that is, those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

John 16:13 “However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak..."

Those who have matured in the faith, and have received the Holy Spirit's gifts of wisdom, knowledge, and discerning of spirits, are qualified to discern the value of non-biblical works. Those who lack these gifts of the Spirit, or are still babes in the Word, are not qualified to do so. Let not either kind of soul judge another in this matter: Who are you to judge another’s servant?

[FresnoJoe]

On 9/18/2017 at 5:14 AM, Justin Adams said:

Thanks be to the Lord that the Holy Spirit is still there to guide. Reading the 'Holy Fathers' or Church Fathers and keeping the mind open to consider the actual meanings behind some of the Apostles writings will help us discover what the Lord wants us to know.

Sometimes we take ourselves too seriously!

 

On 9/18/2017 at 5:45 AM, shiloh357 said:

The Holy Spirit only inspired 66 books and those are the Scriptures He uses to guide us.  

No, that is not how it works.   We can use the early church fathers to understand Christian thought from a historical perspective, but they are not an infallible standard against which to judge the Bible or a supplement to the biblical revelation.   The Bible is what we study because it is only in the Bible that we discover what God wants us to know.   You are replacing the Holy Spirit with the early church fathers and ascribing to them a role that is reserved for the Holy Spirit alone.

This isn't about taking ourselves seriously.  It is about knowing the difference between false doctrine, which you are promoting, and the truth of Scripture. 

 

On 9/24/2017 at 12:58 PM, Davida said:

Really?   by what authority are you claiming that " indeed many books were inspired by  God "? That  is treading on dangerous ground and is exactly how False Doctrines, heresies and demonic doctrines have spread within Christianity.   A person opens the door to the spiritual swamp if they don't recognize this foundational and ultimate Godly Truth that the Bible is the inerrant WORD of GOD at the beginning when they become saved. 

The Bible is the only book that can make the claim that it is God breathed and sharper then a two-edged sword...." personally I have read many hundreds of spiritual books and none of these "man written" books  comes anywhere near the Bible-- which is eternal,  living and light and God breathed.

Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.
Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar. Proverbs 30:5-6 (King James Version)

~

Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:
The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:
The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27 (King James Bible)

Love, Your Brother Joe

~

Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever. Psalms 119:160 (King James Bible)

The Bible contains the mind of God, the state of man, the way of salvation, the doom of sinners, and the happiness of believers. Its doctrines are holy, its precepts are binding, its histories are true, and its decisions are immutable.

Read it to be wise, believe it to be safe, and practice it to be holy. It contains light to direct you, food to support you, and comfort to cheer you.

It is the traveler’s map, the pilgrim’s staff, the pilot’s compass, the soldier’s sword and the Christian’s charter. Here too, Heaven is opened and the gates of Hell disclosed.

Christ is its grand subject, our good its design, and the glory of God its end. It should fill the memory, rule the heart and guide the feet. Read it slowly, frequently and prayerfully.  It is a mine of wealth, a paradise of glory, and a river of pleasure.

It is given you in life, will be opened at the judgment, and be remembered forever. It involves the highest responsibility, rewards the greatest labor, and will condemn all who trifle with its sacred contents.

From The Inside Of My Gideon New Testament