The Christian Creeds

[Buddy D. Mouse]

I would say the creeds were from an UNDIVIDED CHURCH, before there was any split between Orthodox and Roman Catholic.

[Fidei Defensor]

@Episcopius what ia your opinion of the Athanasian Creed? 

I take issue with line 9: 

“The Father incomprehensible, the Son incomprehensible, and the Holy Spirit incomprehensible.” (Athanasian Creed) 

in·com·pre·hen·si·ble
/ˌinˌkämprəˈhensəb(ə)l/
 Learn to pronounce
adjective
not able to be understood; not intelligible.
"a language that is incomprehensible to anyone outside the office

When God lives in us and we live in God (1 John 4:15) how can He not be understood? 

And Jesus said: “And this is eternal life, that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.” (John 17:3) The know is epignosko or ginosko, to know intimately in relationship, even to depth of a man knowing his wife. 

Other refutations of Line 9 of the Athanasian Creed:

”But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.” (2 Peter 3:18)

“6 We are from God. Whoever knows God listens to us; whoever is not from God does not listen to us. By this we know the Spirit of truth and the spirit of error. 7 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God. 8 Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love.”  (1 John 4:6-8)

”Indeed, I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ” (Philippians 3:8)

Edited July 25, 2020 by Fidei Defensor

[Buddy D. Mouse]

Athanasian creed seems more a curse than a creed, and I do not think Athanasius wrote it, I think it was much later than him. That creed USED TO BE in Book of Common Prayer right up with Nicene and Apostles - it is now in a "historical section" - apart from the big two.

 

[Buddy D. Mouse]

IMO, Apostles Creed is earliest, Nicene is next (325 and 381) and Athanasian Creed from 5th or 6th century.

 

 

[Fidei Defensor]

I agree the Athanasian Creed seems a curse, propganda to make people think God is afar when He is near:

 “27 that they should seek God, and perhaps feel their way toward him and find him. Yet he is actually not far from each one of us,
28 for "'In him we live and move and have our being'; as even some of your own poets have said, "'For we are indeed his offspring.” (Acts 17:27-28)

”(for the law made nothing perfect); but on the other hand, a better hope is introduced, through which we draw near to God.” (Hebrews 7:19)

“let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, with our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water.” (Hebrews 10:22)

”Draw near to God, and he will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded.” (James 4:8)

[Fidei Defensor]

On 10/12/2019 at 8:54 PM, Buddy D. Mouse said:

I would say the creeds were from an UNDIVIDED CHURCH, before there was any split between Orthodox and Roman Catholic.

Well actually The Nicene Creed divided The Orthodox and the Roman Catholics who added the Filioque (Fili means Son in Latin): “Holy Spirit Proceeds from Father and The Son.” 
 

The Orthodox stick to one Scripture:

“But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have told you.”-John 14:26

The Catholics and Protestants stick to two: 

“When the Advocate comes, whom I will send to you from the Father—the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father—He will testify about Me.” -John 15:26

“Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I am sending you.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit.” -John 20:21-22

Its ironic bevause the passages they use against each other in debate are in the same gospel, by the same author, and so the holistic view of The Apostle John lead by the Holy Spirit is that The Holy Spirit proceeds from both The Father and Son.  

Edited June 29, 2022 by Fidei Defensor

[Solus Christus]

I wanted to mention the Creed/ Statement of these forums is incredible! It is better expounded and expanded Apostle’s and Nicene Creed.