Saturday or Sunday?

[Guest shiloh357]

57 minutes ago, other one said:

My Bible says no work and Jesus said he was working..... You can make up things to suit your theology if you wish.....

Your Bible actually says more about the issue than you are willing to admit.  I understand context means nothing to you. Not to mention the fact that the Bible defines what "work" means, but that requires thoughtful study.

When Jesus said he was working, He meant that He was doing the work of His Father and that is not prohibited on the Sabbath

But if you are claiming that Jesus is violating God's law, then you are attributing sin to Jesus.   Is that really where you want to go? Do you believe that Jesus sinned?

 

[Justin Adams]

14 minutes ago, Giller said:

Wow you sure have a preference of days, the 7th day is fine, saturday is not, but sunday and the first day of the week is not fine, then what about the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th day of the week?

I am probably not making myself clear. So I apologize. The Israelis refer to days numerically except the Sabbath.

That is why Rome's edict was so anti-Semitic. They changed the Sabbath (7th day) to Sunday, the first day. Then they crowed about it and said the Protestants accepted it, which meant they were also accepting the Authority of Rome.

There is abundant literature and web pages about this. It is not new. It has been around since Gregory and a few others.

What you care to believe is just fine by me. You are free to do so. I am concerned only with relaying truth to the best of my ability so that others who read this will not be misinformed. I normally give the source so that anyone is free to look it up and decide for themselves. Too many I have noted make 'edicts' without support or misquote scripture, or take it out of context to prove a point.  I have no points to prove. These facts are self evident for those that care to study further.

Edited October 23, 2017 by Justin Adams
spel

[When Is Jesus Coming?]

Sabbath Isn’t On Saturday Or Sunday

The pagan Roman Julian/Gregorian calendar that we now use was only created in 46 BC, before this time it did not exist. Therefore, the current 7 day rolling week we currently use only began at that time. Before this date the Romans (Just in the Provence of Rome) were using a calendar with an 8 day week. Yes that’s right the current 7 day week only goes back to 46BC. You can view pictures of the Roman stone tablets that show this Roman 8 day week calendar they used:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_calendar

The Greek Mathematician Sosigenes who Julius Caesar employed to create the new calendar simply removed one of these 8 days (Market day), so the chances of the current 7 day week matching the Jewish week is only a 1 in 7 chance.

However, the calendar Jesus and the Israelites had been using in Israel for over 1500 years prior to this time was completely different to the Julian calendar/Gregorian calendar. Their months actually began with the sighting of the new crescent moon on which day they rested and had a new moon feast, then there were 6 days of work followed by the first Sabbath. Lunar months are 29.53 days long and therefore Sabbaths fall on day’s 8, 15, 22 and 29 each lunar month. Then the process begins over again with the sighting of the next new moon which is either one or two days later after day 29.

However, God’s Calendar is not the same calendar the Jews of today use. The Jews currently use a revised version of God’s Calendar which uses the Gregorian rolling week system instead of God’s lunar weeks, this was due partly to the Roman Emperor Hadrian, after he had put down the Jewish Simon Bar-Kokhba revolt in 135 AD and made an anti-religious decree forbidding Sabbath new moon observances from Jerusalem and also later by the Roman Emperor Constantine who began to force the Jews in 325 AD to worship on the pagan day called Saturday (named after the Roman god of agriculture; Saturnus).

The Jewish calendar used today was created in 359 AD by Sanhedrin Rabbi Hillel II, in response to what these Roman Emperors had done. Because the Jews could no longer sight the new moon from Jerusalem Hillel calendar employs a repeating 19 year lunar mathematical calculation that approximates the timing of each new moon sighting from Jerusalem. This allowed all the Jews to celebrate their feasts on the same day no matter where they had been scattered all over the world. However as the Jews were not allowed to keep the Sabbath on days 8, 15, 22 and 29 each lunar month and had been forced to worship on Saturdays, eventually this knowledge was all but forgotten until recently when it has been rediscovered.

I hope this helps you to understand that the Sabbath is not on Saturdays or Sundays (Which are all pagan names that were invented long after God’s Calendar of the Bible) but instead can fall on any day of the pagan Julian/Gregorian week. The calendar the Jews used was written about by Moses in the Bible and can be found in scripture scattered throughout the Bible, it is God’s Calendar and you can read more about how it is explained in scripture here:

https://guidetothebible.wordpress.com/sabbath-isnt-on-sun-or-sat/

here:

https://guidetothebible.wordpress.com/start-reading-the-book/

and here:

John D Keyser – founder of Hope of Israel ministries:
http://www.hope-of-israel.org/sabtosat.htm

 

[When Is Jesus Coming?]

38 minutes ago, Giller said:

No doubt there was some type of new moon observance, and concerning the days of the month via the Jewish calendar, according to the bible, there were specific holy days that had to fall on a specific day of the month.

Such as the Passover and first day of unleavened bread.

Lev 23:5-6
(5)  In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the LORD'S passover.
(6)  And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the LORD: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread.

But there were other holy feasts that did not have to fall on a specific day of the month, such as "the feast of firstfruits", but it had to be on a specific day of the week, which was the first day of the week, after the sabbath.

The Passover could fall on any day of the week, but not on any day of the month.

So I do not know what all this article is talking about, but I do know that we must check all things out with the bible.
 

That's nearly right.

Leviticus 23:4-16

4 ‘These are the LORD’S appointed festivals, the sacred assemblies you are to proclaim at their appointed times: 5 The LORD’S Passover begins at twilight on the fourteenth day of the first month. 6 On the fifteenth day of that month the LORD’S Festival of Unleavened Bread begins; for seven days you must eat bread made without yeast. 7 On the first day [Day 15] hold a sacred assembly and do no regular work. 8 For seven days present a food offering to the LORD. And on the seventh day [Day 21] hold a sacred assembly, and do no regular work.’ 9 The LORD said to Moses, 10 “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘When you enter the land I am going to give you, and you reap its harvest, bring to the priest a sheaf of the first grain your harvest [The first grain of the barley harvest]. 11 He is to wave the sheaf before the LORD so it will be accepted on your behalf; the priest is to wave it on the day after theSabbath [Day 16]. 12 On the day you wave the sheaf, you must sacrifice as a burnt offering to the LORD a lamb a year old without defect, 13 together with its grain offering of two-tenths of an ephah of the finest flour [Made from the new grain of the barley harvest] mixed with olive oil, a food offering presented to the LORD, a pleasing aroma, and its drink offering of a quarter of a hin of wine. 14 You must not eat any bread, or roasted new grain, until the very day you bring this offering to your God [Day 16]. This is to be a lasting ordinance for the generations to come, wherever you live. 15 ‘From the day after the Sabbath [Day 16], the day you brought the sheaf of the wave offering, count off seven full weeks. 16 Count off fifty days up to the day after the seventh Sabbath, and then present an offering of new grain to the LORD. [The first grain of the wheat harvest]

So here it shows God is naming day 15 of the first month (Aviv) as a Sabbath and day 16 was called the day of First Fruits, when a sheaf of the new barley harvest was waved before the LORD and an offering of fine barley flour was burnt on the altar of incense in the temple.

But the Sabbaths were tied to particular days; 8, 15, 22 &29 within each lunar month. 

The belief the current 7 day rolling week goes all the way back to Adam has no proof, just blind faith. Lets look at one simple fact:

Adam, Abraham, Moses, Jesus and the like - all the way up to today have been using a continuous 7 day cycle (so many believe). 

Now we use a calendar that is called the Gregorian calendar that is a slightly amended version of the Julian calendar that was introduced by Julius Caesar in 46BC: 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_calendar

Now when this new calendar was created it was for the express reason that there were hundreds of calendars and methods for calculating time across the Roman Empire and Julius want to standardise them so that arranging meetings and making plans with the various leaders and people groups in the empire would be much easier. 

Now up to then the Romans were using a calendar with and 8 day rolling week:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_calendar

Only the Romans were using this 8 day week calendar in the province of Rome within Italy, only! Now remember the Israelites had been using there own 7 day week calendar for 1000's of years before the Romans ever existed. So how did the two weeks get to match up perfectly? Do you think the Roman's thought they would use the Jewish timing of their weekly cycle? Do you think they thought they would use this obscure religious sects timing, a group of people who lived over a 1000 miles away. Who, by-the-way, were one of the most (if not the most) troublesome groups within the Empire? No of course not, they didn't even give them the time of day (excuse the pun-analogy).

Instead the mathematician Sosigenes who Julius Caesar employed to create the new calendar simply removed one of these 8 days (Market day) as history records, so the chances of the current 7 day week matching the Jewish week is only a 1 in 7 chance. 
 

 

[When Is Jesus Coming?]

23 minutes ago, Giller said:

You are the one that added the day 16, here is the actual verse as it is:

Lev 23:11
(11)  And he shall wave the sheaf before the LORD, to be accepted for you: on the morrow after the sabbath the priest shall wave it.

On some years it may fall on the day 16, but not every year is the same, and the bible clearly shows that it had to be the day after the sabbath (irregardless to the day of the month), God is specific and not a God of confusion or of adding to the word.

So I am beginning to see, bible wise, that some of your claims (not necessarily all) are false, because it does not match up with the bible.

That is why we must check out what people say, I am glad I did.
 

Of course I added that that's why it is [bracketed] in order to help you see what the verses are explaining. Read it carefully and you will see God calls day 15 a Sabbath.  

Also:

You believe the current 7 day rolling week goes all the way back to Adam but you have no proof, just blind faith. Lets look at one simple fact:

Adam, Abraham, Moses, Jesus and the like - all the way up to today have been using a continuous 7 day cycle (so many believe). 

Now we use a calendar that is called the Gregorian calendar that is a slightly amended version of the Julian calendar that was introduced by Julius Caesar in 46BC: 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_calendar

Now when this new calendar was created it was for the express reason that there were hundreds of calendars and methods for calculating time across the Roman Empire and Julius want to standardise them so that arranging meetings and making plans with the various leaders and people groups in the empire would be much easier. 

Now up to then the Romans were using a calendar with and 8 day rolling week:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_calendar

Only the Romans were using this 8 day week calendar in the province of Rome within Italy, only! Now remember the Israelites had been using there own 7 day week calendar for 1000's of years before the Romans ever existed. So how did the two weeks get to match up perfectly? Do you think the Roman's thought they would use the Jewish timing of their weekly cycle? Do you think they thought they would use this obscure religious sects timing, a group of people who lived over a 1000 miles away. Who, by-the-way, were one of the most (if not the most) troublesome groups within the Empire? No of course not, they didn't even give them the time of day (excuse the pun-analogy).

Instead the mathematician Sosigenes who Julius Caesar employed to create the new calendar simply removed one of these 8 days (Market day) as history records, so the chances of the current 7 day week matching the Jewish week is only a 1 in 7 chance. 

May be you will give a response to this? 

[other one]

5 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

Your Bible actually says more about the issue than you are willing to admit.  I understand context means nothing to you. Not to mention the fact that the Bible defines what "work" means, but that requires thoughtful study.

When Jesus said he was working, He meant that He was doing the work of His Father and that is not prohibited on the Sabbath

But if you are claiming that Jesus is violating God's law, then you are attributing sin to Jesus.   Is that really where you want to go? Do you believe that Jesus sinned?

 

I don't believe Jesus was following old covenant laws but the ones he brought with the new covenant.  His whole ministry he was explaining the differences.....  not murder is against the law but even hating where you would want to murder.  Same as with the rest. He never asked us to keep the Sabbath.  And I still say that it is important that he did not correct them when they accused him of working on the Sabbath.  I fail to think he would just leave them with that false accusation if what you say is reality.

[Guest shiloh357]

23 minutes ago, other one said:

I don't believe Jesus was following old covenant laws but the ones he brought with the new covenant. 

Actually that is not true.  The New Covenant was not in force until AFTER Jesus died the covenant was cut in His blood.   Jesus lived under the Old Covenant. That was the only covenant that existed at time of His earthly ministry.  You have NO examples of Jesus violating a commandment of God under the Old Covenant.

Quote

His whole ministry he was explaining the differences.....  not murder is against the law but even hating where you would want to murder.  Same as with the rest. He never asked us to keep the Sabbath.  And I still say that it is important that he did not correct them when they accused him of working on the Sabbath.

You need actually to read your Bible.    They did accuse them and he corrected them:  

And the ruler of the synagogue answered with indignation, because that Jesus had healed on the sabbath day, and said unto the people, There are six days in which men ought to work: in them therefore come and be healed, and not on the sabbath day. The Lord then answered him, and said, Thou hypocrite, doth not each one of you on the sabbath loose his ox or his ass from the stall, and lead him away to watering? And ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan hath bound, lo, these eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the sabbath day?
(Luk 13:14-16)

And it came to pass, as he went into the house of one of the chief Pharisees to eat bread on the sabbath day, that they watched him. And, behold, there was a certain man before him which had the dropsy. And Jesus answering spake unto the lawyers and Pharisees, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath day? And they held their peace. And he took him, and healed him, and let him go; And answered them, saying, Which of you shall have an ass or an ox fallen into a pit, and will not straightway pull him out on the sabbath day? And they could not answer him again to these things.
(Luk 14:1-6)

 

Quote

 

I fail to think he would just leave them with that false accusation if what you say is reality.

 

The solution to the probem here is that you need to spend less time in the book of Enoch and more time in God's word.

[Riccardo]

10 hours ago, Cobalt1959 said:

step and start telling other people that they have to do so as well, which is exactly what you do, you are placing a salvation connotation on that day whether you wish to admit it or not.  You are wrong to do so and when you do so,

It is just one of the 10 commandments 

Can I not point out to someone not to kill,  or worship images, or any of the other 9, why then do you pick the Sabbath to always have a spin about. is it because it is the one you just don't a-heed to at all & must be shot down & thrown out.  

Thing of logic for some 4  thousand years it was super important & there's a deeper meaning to it that I won't go into. Then some of Christianity thinks its not important for some 1,700 years, but on the new earth & for the rest of eternity it is apart of the worship service once again & back to super important. 

Can you tell me WHY is it back to important & part of the worship service once again when the earth is made new again? 

All the wile the Papacy who boast about changing the day during the dark ages & laugh at protestantism who say the stick to sola scriptura   

[Riccardo]

10 hours ago, other one said:

Say what you will with your logic.....   but the fourth commandment says NO work and Jesus said he was working....    so are you willing to sacrifice our salvation to match your belief about the Sabbath commandment being still in effect?   That's the question you should be asking yourself.

It is one of the 10 commandments, which of the others do you want to abolish.

And you say Jesus was a sinner.  

[OneLight]

Has everyone considered this?

Romans 14:1-13

Receive one who is weak in the faith, but not to disputes over doubtful things.  For one believes he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats only vegetables.  Let not him who eats despise him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats; for God has received him.  Who are you to judge another’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.

One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind.  He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks.  For none of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself.  For if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lord’s.  For to this end Christ died and rose and lived again, that He might be Lord of both the dead and the living.  But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.  For it is written:

“As I live, says the Lord,
Every knee shall bow to Me,
And every tongue shall confess to God.”

So then each of us shall give account of himself to God.  Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather resolve this, not to put a stumbling block or a cause to fall in our brother’s way.