Can you avoid sinning for 5 seconds?

[missmuffet]

32 minutes ago, other one said:

are you talking about the OP or me?

 

The OP oo

[Neighbor]

13 hours ago, Willa said:

As we all know, we focus on the sin when we try not to do it.  So we sin.  But if we focus on Jesus and walk in the Spirit we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

Ah but  is physical fulfillment necessary? Has not our Lord made the standard even higher than any fulfilment of a thought by His having declared the thought to be the same as the act? By the standard  revealed in the Sermon on the Mount, and declared within the Bible for us at Matthew 5, am I not totally depraved?

[GandalfTheWise]

12 hours ago, missmuffet said:

I do not understand the intentions of this post.

I was wondering what people think is or is not possible with regard to sanctification in a practical matter as well as how people actually worry about what "committing a sin" means in their own daily life.  It's a way of focusing attention on what people think sanctification actually looks like in a Christian's life.

I wanted to try to get people's real life opinions on sanctification with a concrete question without turning it into a theoretical proof text tennis match or snowball fight that will eventually degenerate into a yet another OSAS, calvinist/arminian, or which proof texts can you trust, etc. type of thread.  I'm already familiar with that.  What I am curious about is how do people actually view this issue in their own life on a day to day basis.

 

[Neighbor]

10 minutes ago, GandalfTheWise said:

I was wondering what people think is or is not possible with regard to sanctification in a practical matter as well as how people actually worry about what "committing a sin" means in their own daily life.  It's a way of focusing attention on what people think sanctification actually looks like in a Christian's life.

I wanted to try to get people's real life opinions on sanctification with a concrete question without turning it into a theoretical proof text tennis match or snowball fight that will eventually degenerate into a yet another OSAS, calvinist/arminian, or which proof texts can you trust, etc. type of thread.  I'm already familiar with that.  What I am curious about is how do people actually view this issue in their own life on a day to day basis.

 

In my personal life, I view "it"  with awe and appreciation that my Lord has willingly taken on the cost of my depravity,making atonement for th eprice of my sin pst present and future. He is the Lord of my shame.

 On a practical experience level I have endured the warm company of a small band of Christians that fear the loss of their salvation with about every thing they do or do not do. Oddly they do not so much act out legalism but instead become a very generous and kind people. Though their doctrines are strange to me their heart for my Lord is not. These are the brothers and sisters embracing the Church  Of Christ thinking on sin and salvation.

At this time my understanding is that I am justified, fully justified" immediately upon accepting the indwelling of the Holy Spirit by which I became aware of the saving grace and mercy of Jesus.

My sanctification is another subject altogether, for I am not Holy as God is Holy  to the fullest extent. For I am still in constant struggle on every facet of my life against the old man within me. My own  glorification will not come until after Jesus comes again.

The three stages of salvation;justification by Christ Jesus alone at the cross- sanctification, through the Holy Spirit's indwelling and by His work within me-Glorification at the time known to God the Father alone when Jesus for only God the Father knows the time of Jesus' return for His own.

[missmuffet]

5 hours ago, GandalfTheWise said:

I was wondering what people think is or is not possible with regard to sanctification in a practical matter as well as how people actually worry about what "committing a sin" means in their own daily life.  It's a way of focusing attention on what people think sanctification actually looks like in a Christian's life.

I wanted to try to get people's real life opinions on sanctification with a concrete question without turning it into a theoretical proof text tennis match or snowball fight that will eventually degenerate into a yet another OSAS, calvinist/arminian, or which proof texts can you trust, etc. type of thread.  I'm already familiar with that.  What I am curious about is how do people actually view this issue in their own life on a day to day basis.

 

You are thinking too hard

[HarvestLabourer]

On 11/27/2017 at 4:47 AM, GandalfTheWise said:

This is a serious question, not a joke.   Is it possible for you (as a Christian) to go for 5 seconds without committing a sin?   I'm not just looking for yes or no (or I'd have made this a poll).  I'm curious as to why you think it is or is not possible for you to do this.  I think it would be worthwhile explaining what you consider "committing a sin" to mean when you answer.

Thank you.  

(Of course, the ramifications of the possible answers are profound.  If it's possible to go 5 seconds without committing a sin, why not 10 seconds? or 1 minute? or 5 minutes? or an hour or more? or a day or more?  for the rest of our life?   Or are all Christians in a state of continually committing sins such that at each and every second of our life we are committing some sin?  Or in other words, in spite of being new creations in Christ, having the Holy Spirit inside of us, and growing spiritually to manifest the fruit of the Spirit in our lives, are we still constantly committing sins continually with no break each and every second of every day?)  

But let's focus on the single concrete question, is it possible for you to go for 5 seconds without committing a sin? Why or why not?

 

It is serious. Thank you for this offering. It is not discussed enough.

Jesus said be perfect, but I said how.
Jesus also said take no thought for your life (or don't worry).
And thoughts are where evil starts. The thoughts in our heart.

Stopping thinking is hard.
How long can I do it for.
I tried. I learned tricks and devices, like holding your breath can stop your thoughts for a few seconds.
Focusing my attention on what I was seeing and hearing, to deprive the thoughts of attention, is another method.
But you are right. About 5 seconds is the barrier.
Even with my tricks.

I also wondered, where we take thoughts from.
I always thought these were my thoughts. Aren't they.
But Lord says we are taking them.
So who is doing the thinking. Me?
So who am I thinking to. Me?
What's the point of that? Isn't that a sign of madness? 
I watched my thoughts, and sure enough, they do come from outside.
Not only that, they are trains.
One thought follows another and they are linked together like carriages.
They are streams of thoughts.
You think of one thing, and that is followed by a sequence of other thoughts, that always seem to come with that thought.
So I stood on the platform.
Just watched the trains going by.
Ah. we can't stop the thoughts, but we don't have to get onboard with them when they come.
 
That was a good start.
A very good start, because now I was also like an independent observer of my thoughts.
I was no longer getting swept along by them, or with them, or however it works.
So I stayed on the platform watching the trains.
I was horrified.
These were the thoughts I was taking all the time, but now that I was actually examining them objectively,  
well, I am to embarrassed to describe them.
Sinful, and useless, most of them. A lot of self degrading ones, and degrading the people I loved to hate.
Constant repetitions of thoughts about things that bugged me, and things that stressed me.
Which doesn't help the stress.

Becoming so aware of my thoughts put me to task to do something about them.
Observing them, and being consciously aware of them at all times was my start.
Learning to perish them was another thing.
It isn't too hard to perish a thought.
The thing is to be aware of it when it is present.
We are mostly too subjectively involved with a thought to realize when we are thinking it.

I was getting somewhere though.
I'm sure I managed 10 to 15 seconds thought free on the odd occasion.
But it was in my prayer, that this whole exercise became most important.
I realized, my eye isn't single focused on Jesus when thoughts come.
Thoughts divide our attention.
Worse that that, some thoughts were downright wicked, and that was defiling my prayer.
And when I became aware one of these wicked thoughts came to me in my prayer
I groaned in my spirit and loudly thought "Help me, Lord!"
Boof. That put my thoughts away from me instantly.
Wow. That was easy.
So I began to use that.
Every time I noticed I was back on thinking, I cried in my heart, Help me Lord.
It works every time.
It works like a displacement thought.
While deliberately thinking "Help me Lord" I couldn't at the same time be having another thought.

I was extending the time to 20 and 30 seconds now.
Then magic began to happen.
The Spirit start coming down on me.
I can't really time it, because you can't pray and watch a stop watch at the same time,
but I estimate it is from the 30 to 45 seconds mark,
if I can be perfect for that long, the window of heaven opens.

But then, because that happens, I think "wow".
And that one word thought is enough to divide my attention again, and that closes the window.
And I couldn't cry Help me Lord for that, so I made me a new thought to say, "Thank You Lord". 
When the rain come, and my mind is awed, I cried in my heart, "Thank You Lord!"
And that prevented exclamatory thoughts.

These are very powerful tools I am giving you.
If you are serious about prayer, try them.

It wasn't too long and I was making tabernacles that last about 30 minutes or so.
And I had a third thought, because thanking Jesus was simply not enough for everything He was doing for me,
so I added "Praise You Lord" to my repertoire of thoughts allowed.

Whenever I pray now, I allow only these three thoughts.
Help me Lord
Thank You Lord
Praise You Lord.

Until the Lord comes.
Then I think on the things I am praying Him for.
Like the question I had about the passage of His words I read this morning,
or what I should say to a brethren at the forum who has an issue.
That kind of thing.
Jesus speaks directly to my thoughts.
Mostly one or two word answers, which lead me to the answer I seek.

I want to give you some encouragement now.
Because I remember what it was like for me
when I first read St Paul saying to bring EVERY thought captive to the obedience of Christ.
That simply brought on a flood of thoughts for me.
And not pleasant ones. And hugely skeptical ones.
It seemed such an impossibility that I was offended that St Paul said it.
"Might just as well ask me to jump over the moon", is one example of the thoughts in the flood that beseiged my mind.
"If St Paul was here I'd bop him one on the nose for that", was another.
"EVERY thought!?"
"EVERY????? thought"
My thoughts were tripping over themselves at this.

But I found, keep trying, and persist with some of the things I said here,
(and you might even discover some of your own devices to trick your mind)
and you will be surprised. 
It is difficult at first, but if you are genuinely trying, Jesus comes to help,
and He is the Lord of the hosts of thoughts too.
No thought can come to us unless Jesus lets it.

In conclusion,
I don't now never take an ungodly thought, but if one does come,
Jesus distracts me off it somehow.
And I don't have to take a single thought for my life.
A freedom that was as unimaginable to me, as having my every thought captive to Jesus was.
A freedom so great as to be indescribable.

And most of my daily thoughts are replaced also, with Jesus sayings.

Praising and blessing thoughts 
Paul

Casting down imaginations,
and every high thing that exalts the self against the knowledge of God,
and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
2 Corinthians 10:5
 

No man can serve two masters:
for either he will hate the one, and love the other;
or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other.
Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life.
Matthew 6:24-25

 

[simplejeff]

9 hours ago, GandalfTheWise said:

 What I am curious about is how do people actually view this issue in their own life on a day to day basis.

Well,  it might be helpful to read in Scripture about those who Yahweh called faithful and blameless or similar  ..... His Own Declaration, so wonderful true examples to read about.

[TickledPinkinChristWoot!]

Sure. 

1 John 3:6No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him.

 

1 John 5:18-19 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

19 And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.

  

 

 

 

[Heleadethme]

Just some thoughts..........The more we think on Jesus and meditate on His word the less likely we will have unwelcome thoughts.  That said, I don't believe it's a sin just to have an evil thought.....a mere thought will not be imputed to us as sin.....but if we entertain that evil thought instead of overruling it and making our mind "change the subject" as it were, I believe that's where we are accountable.  We can judge that thought as being evil and not of Christ, and put it to death, so to speak.....because scripture says if we judge ourselves we will not be judged with the world.  In Christ we are not ruled by our carnal mind, we can over-rule it in Him.  Pulling down and taking captive every thought, imagination and stronghold that tries to exalt itself.......yes, this we can do through Christ who strengthens us when we have His Spirit in us, and when we are willing to forsake the evil thought or any other temptation.

[Heleadethme]

10 hours ago, Neighbor said:

In my personal life, I view "it"  with awe and appreciation that my Lord has willingly taken on the cost of my depravity,making atonement for th eprice of my sin pst present and future. He is the Lord of my shame.

 On a practical experience level I have endured the warm company of a small band of Christians that fear the loss of their salvation with about every thing they do or do not do. Oddly they do not so much act out legalism but instead become a very generous and kind people. Though their doctrines are strange to me their heart for my Lord is not. These are the brothers and sisters embracing the Church  Of Christ thinking on sin and salvation.

At this time my understanding is that I am justified, fully justified" immediately upon accepting the indwelling of the Holy Spirit by which I became aware of the saving grace and mercy of Jesus.

My sanctification is another subject altogether, for I am not Holy as God is Holy  to the fullest extent. For I am still in constant struggle on every facet of my life against the old man within me. My own  glorification will not come until after Jesus comes again.

The three stages of salvation;justification by Christ Jesus alone at the cross- sanctification, through the Holy Spirit's indwelling and by His work within me-Glorification at the time known to God the Father alone when Jesus for only God the Father knows the time of Jesus' return for His own.

I truly believe the reason there is so much sin in the church is because people have been taught to accept it as normal instead of being taught to realize how grievous our sins are to a holy God........we have turned his grace into a license for sin.  (Jude 1:4)  We would be sanctified much faster if the plumbline of His holiness were being dropped and judging ourselves (our sin) instead of regarding our sins as excusable.  We need to have the fear of God put back in us again........the Lord is not pleased when we dress the wound of His people as though it were not serious (Jer. 6:14).....and He is also not pleased when we esteem Him lightly.

Edited November 27, 2017 by Heleadethme