Forgiveness!

[Mike 2]

11 minutes ago, notsolostsoul said:

 

As Mike2 said with Adam and Eve, they did not forgive themselves and hid from God.

 

Hmmm...

I didnt say they did not forgive themselves, I said they were embarrassed.....however, you may be on to something. Could this be the first stage of  the awareness of the need for forgiveness or at least acknowledging that there has been a transgression. Pride (like Satan) will not allow one to admit the need

 

[1to3]

2 hours ago, Mike 2 said:

We are constantly telling people that we are to ask God for forgiveness when we know that it has already been given.

We should not be telling people that they need to ask God for forgiveness so they can be in a good relationship with Him

From what

i understand of Gods plan of Mercy and Grace is that it is a free gift for all who come and ***repent to God.***

What is repentance before God?

Is it not coming humbly before the Lord and ***asking Him for forgiveness?***

 

Christ Jesus Himself said:

Matthew 4:17

17 From that time on Jesus began to preach,*** “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven has come near.” ***

 

Christ Jesus said:

Luke 24: 46-48

 

46  Then He said to them, “This is what is written: The Messiah will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day,*** 47 and repentance and the remission of sins*** should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48 You are witnesses of these things.

 

Matthew 3:8

8 Produce fruit in keeping with repentance.

 

Isaiah 30:15

15 This is what the Sovereign LORD, the Holy One of Israel, says:*** “In repentance and rest is your salvation,*** in quietness and trust is your strength, but you would have none of it.

 

Luke 5: 31-32

 

31 Jesus answered them, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. 32 I have not come to call the righteous,*** but sinners to repentance.” ***

 

Acts 3:19

19*** Repent,*** then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord,

 

Act 5:31

31 God exalted him to his own right hand as Prince and Savior that he might bring Israel to*** repentance*** and forgive their sins.

 

Acts 20:21

21 I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in*** repentance*** and have faith in our Lord Jesus.

 

Romans 2:4

4 Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to ***repentance? ***

 

2 Corinthians 7:9

• 9 yet now I am happy, not because you were made sorry, but because your sorrow led you to*** repentance.*** For you became sorrowful as God intended and so were not harmed in any way by us.

• Acts 11:18

• 18 When they heard this, they had no further objections and praised God, saying, “So then, even to Gentiles God has granted*** repentance*** that leads to life.”

• Jeremiah 31:19

• 19 After I strayed,***I repented; ***after I came to understand, I beat my breast. I was ashamed and humiliated because I bore the disgrace of my youth.’

• Luke 17:3-4

• 3 So watch yourselves. “If your brother or sistersins against you, rebuke them; and if they repent, forgive them. 4 Even if they sin against you seven times in a day and seven times come back to you saying ‘I repent,’ you must forgive them.”
   

• Acts 3:18-19

• 18 But this is how God fulfilled what he had foretold through all the prophets, saying that his Messiah would suffer. 19*** Repent,*** then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord,

• 2 Corinthians 7:9-10

• 9 yet now I am happy, not because you were made sorry, but because your sorrow led you to*** repentance.*** For you became sorrowful as God intended and so were not harmed in any way by us. 10 Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret, but worldly sorrow brings death.

• Revelation 3:3

• 3 Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; hold it fast, and ***repent.*** But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.

• Revelation 2:5

• 5 Consider how far you have fallen! ***Repent*** and do the things you did at first.*** If you do not repent,*** I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place.

• Romans 2:5

  5 But because of your stubbornness and your*** unrepentant heart***, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed.

   

   

   

  1 John 1:9

  "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

   

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

To my understanding and please correct me if you think i am wrong, but to me , repentance is coming to God and asking Him for forgiveness of my sins and letting them die at the foot of the cross and be covered clear and made whole-wholesome- by the shedding of Christ Jesus' blood for and over my sins/sicknesses- turning away from my sins/sicknesses and turning my life over to Gods way of doing things, through His plan of Mercy and Grace found in and though His WORD.

Edited November 30, 2017 by 1to3

[notsolostsoul]

1 hour ago, Mike 2 said:

Hmmm...

I didnt say they did not forgive themselves, I said they were embarrassed.....however, you may be on to something. Could this be the first stage of  the awareness of the need for forgiveness or at least acknowledging that there has been a transgression. Pride (like Satan) will not allow one to admit the need

 

That was my mistake in wording. Sorry Mike 2 and simplejeff.

[simplejeff]

Just now, notsolostsoul said:

That was my mistake in wording. Sorry Mike 2 and simplejeff.

No worries ,  no problem at all.  

Rather SHALOM (PEACE AND JOYOUSNESS) in RESURRECTION LIFE TODAY IN JESUS from our FATHER IN HEAVEN to you and your household !

[Neighbor]

11 hours ago, notsolostsoul said:

Forgiveness can be a difficult thing to do, even for a seasoned Christian. 

To a "Babe" in Christ it may be even more difficult.

I have known many who believe they have committed so much that there is no way God would forgive them.

I know others whom on their journey feel they can not forgive others because those others have done such wrongs. So since they have these difficulties with forgiveness, they struggle with getting closer to Jesus. 

Some may see

Ephesians 4:31-32 (KJV)

31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:

32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

As instructions on how to forgive.

Yet others may be discouraged by

Matthew 6:14-15 (KJV)

14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

In thinking that they can not be forgiven, so why bother trying to work on forgiveness.

Since Jesus is into saving as many as he can and for his followers to help one another. Are there any more verses to encourage others to continue with Jesus or is there any advice we can give to encourage our fellow man to forgive?

Perhaps the entire life of King David may be studied with that end in mind.

[HarvestLabourer]

13 hours ago, notsolostsoul said:

Since Jesus is into saving as many as he can and for his followers to help one another. Are there any more verses to encourage others to continue with Jesus or is there any advice we can give to encourage our fellow man to forgive?

Thank you, notsolost.

This verse was a great help for me.

But that ye may know that the Son of man has power on earth to forgive sins,
(then said He to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house.
Matthew 9:6

Thank you to everyone. Good posts and good verses. 
And thank You Lord.
Paul

And said unto them, Thus it is written,
and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached
in His name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
Luke 24:46-47

[Mike 2]

15 hours ago, notsolostsoul said:

That was my mistake in wording. Sorry Mike 2 and simplejeff.

No need to apologize...it brought up an interesting thought.

For years (over 30) I ran a business customizing cars. Often we would stand around kicking around ideas on how to proceed with something, some ideas weren't very good, some weren't expressed to well, but often there was a part of each that caused us to think a little bit differently. Those times were the times when we were best able to get over stumbling blocks, we just had to be open and looking for a better understanding.

I found the only way that my company could reach it's full potential was to create an environment where everyone could freely express their ideas.

Your "stumble" has given me something to think about...thanks

Edited December 1, 2017 by Mike 2

[Mike 2]

20 hours ago, 1to3 said:

From what

i understand of Gods plan of Mercy and Grace is that it is a free gift for all who come and ***repent to God.***

What is repentance before God?

Is it not coming humbly before the Lord and ***asking Him for forgiveness?***

 

Christ Jesus Himself said:

Matthew 4:17

17 From that time on Jesus began to preach,*** “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven has come near.” ***

 

Christ Jesus said:

Luke 24: 46-48

 

46  Then He said to them, “This is what is written: The Messiah will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day,*** 47 and repentance and the remission of sins*** should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48 You are witnesses of these things.

 

Matthew 3:8

8 Produce fruit in keeping with repentance.

 

Isaiah 30:15

15 This is what the Sovereign LORD, the Holy One of Israel, says:*** “In repentance and rest is your salvation,*** in quietness and trust is your strength, but you would have none of it.

 

Luke 5: 31-32

 

31 Jesus answered them, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. 32 I have not come to call the righteous,*** but sinners to repentance.” ***

 

Acts 3:19

19*** Repent,*** then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord,

 

Act 5:31

31 God exalted him to his own right hand as Prince and Savior that he might bring Israel to*** repentance*** and forgive their sins.

 

Acts 20:21

21 I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in*** repentance*** and have faith in our Lord Jesus.

 

Romans 2:4

4 Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to ***repentance? ***

 

2 Corinthians 7:9

• 9 yet now I am happy, not because you were made sorry, but because your sorrow led you to*** repentance.*** For you became sorrowful as God intended and so were not harmed in any way by us.

• Acts 11:18

• 18 When they heard this, they had no further objections and praised God, saying, “So then, even to Gentiles God has granted*** repentance*** that leads to life.”

• Jeremiah 31:19

• 19 After I strayed,***I repented; ***after I came to understand, I beat my breast. I was ashamed and humiliated because I bore the disgrace of my youth.’

• Luke 17:3-4

• 3 So watch yourselves. “If your brother or sistersins against you, rebuke them; and if they repent, forgive them. 4 Even if they sin against you seven times in a day and seven times come back to you saying ‘I repent,’ you must forgive them.”
   

• Acts 3:18-19

• 18 But this is how God fulfilled what he had foretold through all the prophets, saying that his Messiah would suffer. 19*** Repent,*** then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord,

• 2 Corinthians 7:9-10

• 9 yet now I am happy, not because you were made sorry, but because your sorrow led you to*** repentance.*** For you became sorrowful as God intended and so were not harmed in any way by us. 10 Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret, but worldly sorrow brings death.

• Revelation 3:3

• 3 Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; hold it fast, and ***repent.*** But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.

• Revelation 2:5

• 5 Consider how far you have fallen! ***Repent*** and do the things you did at first.*** If you do not repent,*** I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place.

• Romans 2:5

  5 But because of your stubbornness and your*** unrepentant heart***, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed.

   

   

   

  1 John 1:9

  "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

   

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

To my understanding and please correct me if you think i am wrong, but to me , repentance is coming to God and asking Him for forgiveness of my sins and letting them die at the foot of the cross and be covered clear and made whole-wholesome- by the shedding of Christ Jesus' blood for and over my sins/sicknesses- turning away from my sins/sicknesses and turning my life over to Gods way of doing things, through His plan of Mercy and Grace found in and though His WORD.

re·pent·ance
rəˈpentəns/Submit
noun
the action of repenting; sincere regret or remorse.
"each person who turns to God in genuine repentance and faith will be saved"
synonyms:    remorse, contrition, contriteness, penitence, regret, ruefulness, remorsefulness, shame, guilt
"her lack of repentance angered them"

I just googled this and grabbed this definition but they are all pretty much the same.

With that in mind here are my thoughts.

I think the important thing to realize about repentance is that it is a change of attitude (as the verses you have quoted so clearly indicate) and forgiveness is not a part of it, they are 2 different things.

There can be repentance without receiving or even asking, for forgiveness. If we think about it true repentance does not ask for or expect forgiveness, because forgiveness has nothing to to do with with feeling regret or remorse. Forgiveness is not the end goal of repentance rather the end goal of repentance is a better life as a result of knowing the way we have been going is not good.

You said;

What is repentance before God?

Is it not coming humbly before the Lord and ***asking Him for forgiveness?***

Asking for forgiveness and repenting are 2 different things.

I get why we are always saying "ask God for forgiveness" it's because we are talking with people that are seeking God and His acceptance. We are talking to people that know they are sinners and we just want to assure them that God will forgive them....if they just ask... when the truth is all we have to do is accept it's already been done once for all. The proof was given 2000 years ago. When we turn from the wrong we are doing (repent) we then become open to what is possible in a relationship.

In our world today we put the two together as one and the same (we are constantly saying 'ask God for forgiveness') and I think it causes a real stumbling block for us because we then expect someone to forgive us when we do repent.....or...that we have to repent in order to be forgiven, thereby making making one conditional upon the other. I can forgive someone who hasn't repented (God did) and I can repent yet not be forgiven (with people).

God's forgiveness is not conditional, it was done once for all (see some verses below) He does tell us that if we change our way of thinking and turn to Him we will find his blessings (a lot of the verses quoted above). 

I think asking for forgiveness is something we should be doing for the benefit of the person we have wronged. In asking for forgiveness it can only be of benefit to us if we have regret and remorse for the wrong we have done because that may have a much greater impact in mending the relationship we have broken, particularly if it is accompanied with a sincere apology. The asking invites the person offended to let it go and not let it constantly eat away at their well being every time they think of what happened. It's hard to imagine that working but anyone that has forgiven someone can attest to how freeing it is.

God tells us to repent (confessing / acknowledging our sins is a part of that) so that we will turn to Him and realize that the forgiveness has already been given, is constantly there, and that he has many blessings for our relationship. 

Forgiveness is something we give, or accept, but never expected or demanded. If we ask for it, it should only be for the benefit of the person we are asking.

Come to think of it, is there anything we can do that will benefit God?

I don't think we are going to find the actual words that we ask for forgiveness (God) in the bible, because God has already extended it.

That then brings me back to our apparent misunderstanding between

Mat. 6:15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

and

Heb_7:27  He has no need to offer sacrifices every day like high priests do, first for his own sins and then for those of the people, since he did this once for all when he sacrificed himself.

 Heb_9:12  Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with his own blood he went into the Most Holy Place once for all and secured our eternal redemption.

Heb_9:26  Then he would have had to suffer repeatedly since the creation of the world. But now, at the end of the ages, he has appeared once for all to remove sin by his sacrifice. 

1Pe_3:18  For the Messiah also suffered for sins once for all, an innocent person for the guilty, so that he could bring you to God. He was put to death in a mortal body but was brought to life by the Spirit, 

 

 

Edited December 1, 2017 by Mike 2

[1to3]

 

Hi Mike2, yes i agree with that.
 

 

26 minutes ago, Mike 2 said:

The proof was given 2000 years ago. When we turn from the wrong we are doing (repent) we then become open to what is possible in a relationship.

 

I guess for me the reverence and subjugation to God is in the asking?

how can i explain by another example...

Like being welcome into  home yet asking for permission , doing so out of respect and consideration and subjugation?

[Mike 2]

2 minutes ago, 1to3 said:

34 minutes ago, Mike 2 said:

The proof was given 2000 years ago. When we turn from the wrong we are doing (repent) we then become open to what is possible in a relationship.

 

I guess for me the reverence and subjugation to God is in the asking?

how can i explain by another example...

Like being welcome into  home yet asking for permission , doing so out of respect and consideration and subjugation?

I hear you and am totally on board with you.

I wonder if the example of the prodigal son is an example of repentance and forgiveness. Would we say  this is an example of the son sinning against the father?.