Skeleton Rapture Crew

[Montana Marv]

7 minutes ago, ENOCH2010 said:

Q why doesn't the Bible mention the resurrection that happens with your pre-trib rapture. Like it does the first resurrection at the second coming 

Because it is a mystery, and no one knows its time except the Father in Heaven.  So it's time is not revealed in Scripture. The dead of righteous Israel are raised at the Second Coming according to Daniel. To receive their inheritance of the land.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Unfailing Presence]

4 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

We're not told how many, but there will be a remnant left, certainly enough to repopulate the earth during the millennium. Just look at the Egyptian captivity of the Hebrew's for one example. Whether you believe 70 or 72 entered Egypt by Joseph's invitation, after 400 years, 2-3 million left including women and children. I would suspect at the close of the millennium, and given the fact that many humans will live lifespans close to 1,000 years as in the days of Genesis, the population will explode into the billions.

 

The exodus from Egypt involved no " remnant " of believers  all facing the same comprehensive danger .

The number of believers  that left Pharaoh's brickyards after celebrating the Passover  was the same number of believers  that walked on dry ground across the Red Sea . 

God left no believer behind to suffer Pharaoh's wrath or to drown in the Red Sea . 

In fact there is nowhere in the  entire bible where you can find that God abandons a percentage of a group of faithful & obedient people all facing the same unique imminent danger . 

In fact you cannot name where He abandons and forsakes even one person out of such a group anywhere in scripture . 

God does not change at all , let alone to suit the whims of man .

 

 

 

[Dennis1209]

2 hours ago, Unfailing Presence said:

 

The exodus from Egypt involved no " remnant " of believers  all facing the same comprehensive danger .

The number of believers  that left Pharaoh's brickyards after celebrating the Passover  was the same number of believers  that walked on dry ground across the Red Sea . 

God left no believer behind to suffer Pharaoh's wrath or to drown in the Red Sea . 

In fact there is nowhere in the  entire bible where you can find that God abandons a percentage of a group of faithful & obedient people all facing the same unique imminent danger . 

In fact you cannot name where He abandons and forsakes even one person out of such a group anywhere in scripture . 

God does not change at all , let alone to suit the whims of man .

 

 

 

I have no idea where you're coming from?

[Daniel 11:36]

I don't either

Tell the forum about your affiliation 

[Last Daze]

53 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said:

I have no idea where you're coming from?

You're not alone.

[Unfailing Presence]

43 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said:

I have no idea where you're coming from?

In all the bible God  has never abandoned any portion of a  group of faithful & obedient people who are all facing a common imminent danger .

Ever . 

And you can't name one instance 

None have ever been lost .

Never . 

And God will not change  in the rapture . 

No need for a " remnant " in the Pre-trib view   since He will save all of the saved who are facing a common deadly event .

As is consistent with the entire biblical record.

It is the post -trib view that is forced to change God , and God's demonstrated desire to save comprehensively  entire groups of obedient & faithful people facing a common

imminent threat . 

God does not change . The same yesterday , today , & forever .

 

[Diaste]

5 hours ago, Quasar93 said:

Let me see your argument with Scriptural proof supporting your "own conclusions," to the following documentation of the pre-trib rapture of the Church you deny and have so far done nothing but misinterpret Scripture you use.  And DO NOT do so by editing what I have posted with your reply!  I will tell you now, there is no way you can deny the teachings of Jesus and Paul's teachings on the coming pre-trib rapture of the Church, whom you are calling liars for doing so.  The following refute your views:

 

Scriptural proof for the pre-trib rapture of the Church 

The Scriptures are crystal clear where Jesus will meet His Church, in 1 Thess.4:17: "After that, we who are still alive and are left, WILL BE CAUGHT UP TOGETHER with them in the clouds TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR. And so we will be with the Lord forever." In the FIRST of His TWO comings, recorded in 1 Thess.4:16, yet to take place, confirming Jn.14:2-3, 28! From where the Church is seen in heaven BEFORE the tribulation begins, in Rev.4:1-2. Where Jesus used John to symbolically represent the Church. Confirming 2 Thess.2:3 and 7-8! Where the Church is seen in heaven later, at the marriage of the Bride/Church to the Lamb/Jesus. While the tribulation is taking place on earth, recorded in Rev.19:7-8. From where Jesus will return to the earth in the SECOND, of His TWO comings, yet to take place, WITH HIS CHURCH, riding white horses, dressed in fine linen, white and clean, in His armies from heaven, recorded in 19:14, confirming Zech.14:4-5 and Acts 1:6; 1:11; 2:29-30 and 15:16! From which the above Scriptures leave no other options!

The difference between the pre-trib rapture of the Church, as delineated above, and the SECOND coming of Jesus are the following facts:

1. Jesus returns to the earth in His second coming, recorded in Zech.14:4-5 and in Acts 1:11.

2. No one meets Jesus in the sky when He returns in His second coming, recorded in Rev.19:14, as they will when He returns for the first time, recorded in 1 Thess.4:16!.

3. Jesus will return from the marriage of the Bride/Church to the Lamb/Jesus, in heaven, in His second coming, to the earth, with His Church, recorded in Rev.19:14, He came for in His first coming, in the clouds of the sky, seven years before, recorded in Jn.14:2-3, 28, 1 Thess.4:16-17 and 2 Thess.2:3 and 7-8.

4. No one returns to the present heaven at Jesus second coming to the earth, because He has come to establish His 1,000 year reign on the throne of David, in the restored kingdom of Israel, as recorded in Acts 1:6; 2:29-30; 15:16; Zech.6:12-13 described in Ez.40-47 and Rev.20:6. In addition to the present heaven and earth being destroyed and will pass away, as recorded in 2 Pet.3:7 and in Rev.21:1.
 

Quasar93

Matt 24. Not my conclusion. Jesus said it. 2 Thess 2:1-7. Not my conclusion. Paul said it. But lets move on to refutation.

"The Scriptures are crystal clear where Jesus will meet His Church, in 1 Thess.4:17: "After that, we who are still alive and are left, WILL BE CAUGHT UP TOGETHER with them in the clouds TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR. And so we will be with the Lord forever." In Matt 24:30 Jesus comes in the clouds, just as 1 Thess 4:17 says. If this when the gathering happens then it occurs after the A of D, as Jesus said. But lets post more of 1 Thess 4. Verse 16, "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:"  Well, this isn't going to be a secret coming with all the shouting and the trumpet and the voice of the archangel. This looks a lot like Matt 24:30-31. "And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet"

In the FIRST of His TWO comings, recorded in 1 Thess.4:16, yet to take place, confirming Jn.14:2-3, 28!

In the first of His two comings? You mean the second of His three comings don't you? Cause the first coming was in the form of a child born of woman. You sure you read the bible? Anyway, your proof offers no timing of any such pre-coming, where there is clear timing in Matt 24:30-31 and 2 Thess 2:3, after the A of D. Where is any mention of the timing of your pre-coming? With explicit timing established in Matt and 2 Thess why should we believe in another coming and another gathering sans explicit testimony?

From where the Church is seen in heaven BEFORE the tribulation begins, in Rev.4:1-2. Where Jesus used John to symbolically represent the Church. Confirming 2 Thess.2:3 and 7-8!

This is an assumption. There is no proof the church is in heaven at this point. The great company of the elect is seen in heaven in Rev 7, in my opinion between the 5th and 6th seals. What leads anyone to think John represents the church? Got any scripture explicitly stating John is the church? Ok, lets post your reference:

2 Thess 2

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

How in the name of Jesus does John representing the church confirm the above? This passage actually proves the gathering and the Day of the Lord only occur after the beast is revealed.

 While the tribulation is taking place on earth, recorded in Rev.19:7-8.

Rev 19:7-8 "

7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints." How is this the tribulation? You said, "...tribulation...recorded in Rev 19:7-8." This don't look anything like tribulation. But that's what you said.

From where Jesus will return to the earth in the SECOND, of His TWO comings, yet to take place, WITH HIS CHURCH, riding white horses, dressed in fine linen, white and clean, in His armies from heaven, recorded in 19:14, confirming Zech.14:4-5 and Acts 1:6; 1:11; 2:29-30 and 15:16! From which the above Scriptures leave no other options!" Nah, not the church. Immediately before this the church is depicted as a beautiful pure bride and then she's going to war? That stretched credulity, even for the Pretrib ideology. The armies here are the angels. Angels are also clothed in white linen.

 "No one meets Jesus in the sky when He returns in His second coming, recorded in Rev.19:14, as they will when He returns for the first time, recorded in 1 Thess.4:16!.

Really? Cause in Matt 24 Jesus appears in the clouds and the angels gather the elect. Where are these gathered elect meeting Jesus? Coffee shop? This is the 2nd coming isn't it? Right there in Matt 24. Says it pretty clearly. First the sign, the Jesus appears in the clouds, the angels gather the elect...Pretty much just like 1 Thess 4:16. And who are these gathered elect? They came out of great tribulation, that's the order Jesus presents in Matt 24. If this is the 2nd coming and Rev 19 is the 2nd coming then I would have to say just before the war commences the elect are gathered meeting Christ in the air as He is revealed from heaven.

No one returns to the present heaven at Jesus second coming to the earth

Do you mean the 3rd coming? Cause you said there was a 2nd coming 7 years previous. That would make this the third. And I don't think there's any explicit scripture proving this idea. As I see it, pretrib ignores explicit scripture clearly revealing the truth and uses implication and assumption to further the ideology. For instance, the entirety of Matt 24 is always absent from pretrib arguments. Why?

 

 

 

[Diaste]

59 minutes ago, Unfailing Presence said:

In all the bible God  has never abandoned any portion of a  group of faithful & obedient people who are all facing a common imminent danger .

Ever . 

And you can't name one instance 

None have ever been lost .

Never . 

And God will not change  in the rapture . 

No need for a " remnant " in the Pre-trib view   since He will save all of the saved who are facing a common deadly event .

As is consistent with the entire biblical record.

It is the post -trib view that is forced to change God , and God's demonstrated desire to save comprehensively  entire groups of obedient & faithful people facing a common

imminent threat . 

God does not change . The same yesterday , today , & forever .

 

True. But you are assuming the church is pure, righteous, faithful and obedient. This assumption is incorrect. Half of Christian's can't even be faithful to their marriage vows, and much less, one would suppose, to the word of God. Just look at the allegations of corruption surrounding the Christian leaders of the church all across the world. Yes, God will never abandon the faithful, ever. However, speaking for the entire group and generally promoting unshaken faithful and obedient behavior of the entire body is illogical, and incorrect.

[brotherdon]

Jesus said its the sick that need a doctor not the well Matthew 9:12, He did not come to call the righteous, but the sinner to repentance, Matthew 9:13

[ForHisGlory37]

7 hours ago, Quasar93 said:

Let me see your argument with Scriptural proof supporting your "own conclusions," to the following documentation of the pre-trib rapture of the Church you deny and have so far done nothing but misinterpret Scripture you use.  And DO NOT do so by editing what I have posted with your reply!  I will tell you now, there is no way you can deny the teachings of Jesus and Paul's teachings on the coming pre-trib rapture of the Church, whom you are calling liars for doing so.  The following refute your views:

 

Scriptural proof for the pre-trib rapture of the Church 

The Scriptures are crystal clear where Jesus will meet His Church, in 1 Thess.4:17: "After that, we who are still alive and are left, WILL BE CAUGHT UP TOGETHER with them in the clouds TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR. And so we will be with the Lord forever." In the FIRST of His TWO comings, recorded in 1 Thess.4:16, yet to take place, confirming Jn.14:2-3, 28! From where the Church is seen in heaven BEFORE the tribulation begins, in Rev.4:1-2. Where Jesus used John to symbolically represent the Church. Confirming 2 Thess.2:3 and 7-8! Where the Church is seen in heaven later, at the marriage of the Bride/Church to the Lamb/Jesus. While the tribulation is taking place on earth, recorded in Rev.19:7-8. From where Jesus will return to the earth in the SECOND, of His TWO comings, yet to take place, WITH HIS CHURCH, riding white horses, dressed in fine linen, white and clean, in His armies from heaven, recorded in 19:14, confirming Zech.14:4-5 and Acts 1:6; 1:11; 2:29-30 and 15:16! From which the above Scriptures leave no other options!

The difference between the pre-trib rapture of the Church, as delineated above, and the SECOND coming of Jesus are the following facts:

1. Jesus returns to the earth in His second coming, recorded in Zech.14:4-5 and in Acts 1:11.

2. No one meets Jesus in the sky when He returns in His second coming, recorded in Rev.19:14, as they will when He returns for the first time, recorded in 1 Thess.4:16!.

3. Jesus will return from the marriage of the Bride/Church to the Lamb/Jesus, in heaven, in His second coming, to the earth, with His Church, recorded in Rev.19:14, He came for in His first coming, in the clouds of the sky, seven years before, recorded in Jn.14:2-3, 28, 1 Thess.4:16-17 and 2 Thess.2:3 and 7-8.

4. No one returns to the present heaven at Jesus second coming to the earth, because He has come to establish His 1,000 year reign on the throne of David, in the restored kingdom of Israel, as recorded in Acts 1:6; 2:29-30; 15:16; Zech.6:12-13 described in Ez.40-47 and Rev.20:6. In addition to the present heaven and earth being destroyed and will pass away, as recorded in 2 Pet.3:7 and in Rev.21:1.
 

Quasar93

 

HOW DO i STOP THESE ATTATCHMENTS FROM BEING CONTINUALLY OPOSTD?

 

 

 

 

In the FIRST of His TWO comings, recorded in 1 Thess.4:16 -  The FIRST of His TWO comings??!!! 

That saying is just absolutely ABSURD!  There is only ONE SECOND COMING!!!!  Your interpretation of scripture is heresy.  That is why the pre-trib rapture is a LIE.  It cannot hold up to the Word of God.