Skeleton Rapture Crew

[inchrist]

5 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

I am not stubborn. I am confident.  And arrogant cult-like people such as you get frustrated when you encounter people who think for themselves instead of cow-towing to your teachings. 

Then you really got to stop with these type of phrases

I can afford to be stubborn when I think I am right

Rather arrogant isnt it?

 God disciplines us but as believers he does not curse us

King Davids life states otherwise.

[Guest shiloh357]

49 minutes ago, inchrist said:

Then you really got to stop with these type of phrases

I can afford to be stubborn when I think I am right

Rather arrogant isnt it?

 It's not. I can actually hold to what I believe with confidence. And rejecting your teachings isn't being stubborn as you don't have any truth.
 

Quote

 

King Davids life states otherwise.

 

David was not cursed.  He was forgiven when he repented.

Edited December 8, 2017 by shiloh357

[Diaste]

1 hour ago, Unfailing Presence said:

Right you are I forgot that  God saved the all those obedient to Him  from it .  

One of the rare instances where a " remnant " from the obedient & faithful was not required , and the majority of the faithful & obedient where not caused to perish .

My bad .

Well, we know there are multiple example throughout both old and new testament of this common theme where God causes the  great majority of those  faithful & obedient to suffer the consequences of some dire circumstance , while saving a " remnant " .

Would you like to give one ?

If I knew of one I would offer. I see examples where a group called by His name, consisting of the faithful and believing and the less than faithful and believing, walked through a great deal of trouble, with the less than faithful and believing faction punished while the faithful endured no such hardship.

There might be more than a few examples of this in the desert wandering. 

[inchrist]

1 hour ago, shiloh357 said:

 It's not. I can actually hold to what I believe with confidence. And rejecting your teachings isn't being stubborn as you don't have any truth.
 

David was not cursed. 

Nope....

2 sam 16:11

Let him alone and let him curse, for the Lord has told him.

Do you really think God is going to violate his own law?

Deut 28 However, if you do not obey the Lord your God and do not carefully follow all his commands and decrees I am giving you today, all these curses will come on you and overtake you

David lost his first born

Duet 28 The fruit of your womb will be cursed

2 sam 12:14 For this reason the son who was born to you will die.

Quote

 He was forgiven when he repented.

Yes indeed but God does not make the consequences just magically disappear.

Actions have consequences.

This nullifies your position a believer cant be cursed.

............

You removed the law with your doctrine, dispensationalism, and have built an eschatology based on this dangerous ground....actions have consequences.

Rev 13:17

It was given power to wage war against God's holy people and to conquer them. And it was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation.

Who gave power to the dragon, why was power given to the dragon?

 

The Lord will cause you to be defeated by your enemies. You will attack your enemies from one direction, but you will scatter from them in seven! You will be an object of horror to all the kingdoms of the earth.Your corpses will be food for all the scavenging birds and wild animals, and no one will be there to chase them away.”–Deuteronomy 28:25-26

Edited December 8, 2017 by inchrist

[Last Daze]

15 hours ago, Unfailing Presence said:

 I think it would most helpful to educate  pre-trib adherents  by  harkening back to the Word of God and give some of the examples  throughout scripture of the common remnant rescue theme where God has allowed a group of people , faithful and obedient to Him ,  to suffer the consequences of a looming deadly threat , most being killed , with a small remnant raptured . 

I am amazed not one person has mentioned even one the many examples so far in this thread ?

For example the well known instance of this remnant theme where King Nebuchadnezzar threw all three faithful and obedient servants of God Shadrach , Meshach , Abednego into the tribulation of the fiery furnace ,  allowing Meshach and Abednego to burn to death , but rapturing Shadrach away from the fiery flames  . 

Some one else care to give an example ?

 

The return of Christ is unlike any other time in history.  It has no precedent.  For six millennia Satan has been the god of this world.  That will come to an abrupt end.  The circumstances are unique.

[Guest shiloh357]

40 minutes ago, inchrist said:

Nope....

2 sam 16:11

Let him alone and let him curse, for the Lord has told him.

Do you really think God is going to violate his own law?

Deut 28 However, if you do not obey the Lord your God and do not carefully follow all his commands and decrees I am giving you today, all these curses will come on you and overtake you

David lost his first born

Duet 28 The fruit of your womb will be cursed

2 sam 12:14 For this reason the son who was born to you will die.

Yes indeed but God does not make the consequences just magically disappear.

Actions have consequences.

This nullifies your position a believer cant be cursed.

actually, it doesn't.   David is the one that should have died.   David was forgiven and spared.   His child died as a consequence, but David was forgiven.

And cursing and discipline are not the same thing in the Bible.  Anyone with any skill in the Bible knows that.

And by the way, those who call God a liar, as you do, by denying the deity of Jesus, are the ones under a curse. 

Quote

 

............

You removed the law with your doctrine, dispensationalism, and have built an eschatology based on this dangerous ground....actions have consequences.

Rev 13:17

It was given power to wage war against God's holy people and to conquer them. And it was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation.

Who gave power to the dragon, why was power given to the dragon?

 

The Lord will cause you to be defeated by your enemies. You will attack your enemies from one direction, but you will scatter from them in seven! You will be an object of horror to all the kingdoms of the earth.Your corpses will be food for all the scavenging birds and wild animals, and no one will be there to chase them away.”–Deuteronomy 28:25-26

 

I have not removed the law.  Many dispensationalists follow Messianic Judaism and keep the Sabbath, but recognize that Israel and the Church are radically separate.     You are ignorant about what dispensationalism teaches and you put all dispensationalists in the same box.  Your as ignorant about us as you are about Jesus.

[Guest shiloh357]

.

Edited December 8, 2017 by shiloh357

[hmbld]

2 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

Uh no, Shadrach was not "raptured" and Meshach and Abednego were not burned up.   All three went into teh furnace and all three came out of the furnace unharmed and not even smelling like smoke. 

So, instead thinking that we need to be educated, you need to be educated in Bible 101 and learn your Bible as you completely messed up that story.

There aren't any. 

Yeah I missed his point too when I pointed this out. He knows but was trying to make a point with sarcasm I think. 

[Guest shiloh357]

14 hours ago, Unfailing Presence said:

Not there I guess since God saved them all and caused none of them to suffer the tribulation of the fiery furnace .

Well I know there are other multiple examples in scripture demonstrating this common theme of God allowing the majority of those , obedient & faithful , to perish while rapturing away a small remnant .

What about the time God's people where being pursued by Pharaoh's army to the edge of the Red sea and they all died in the waters trying to escape  except for  a small remnant 

God saved ?

 

This Demonstrates that you don't really understand the pretrib rapture.   It is not a remnant theme doctrine; it is not a doctrine at all.   The whole church is taken out, not a small remnant while the rest are left on earth to perish.   You clearly don't know what we teach. You are putting forth caricature of our teaching, and not framing it correctly.

[Quasar93]

On ‎12‎/‎5‎/‎2017 at 3:10 PM, Diaste said:

This type of debate can go round and round. Over the years I have tried everything I know to combat the misleading doctrine of pretrib: Biblical facts, biblical examples, rational debate, logic. Nothing makes any difference to some. People are going to believe what they wish. It can't be stopped. It's the virtue and vice of mankind.

Lastdaze said it well, "Reality will prove it in way words just can't."

That reality is coming. The beast is here and will soon be empowered.

I hearken back to the words of Jesus I heard many years ago, "So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors."

I don't yet know if we are seeing these things of which He spoke. But Israel is back in the land. The Jews have prepared to build the Temple and are ready as of today to begin construction. Arabs are ready to talk about the Temple standing once again. The US just missed the deadline to move the Embassy to Jerusalem.

The opening of the first seal and the unleashing of the beast is next. 

There will be no rapture before this.

 

You have bee misled by false teaching the Scriptures refute:

 

Scriptural proof for the pre-trib rapture of the Church 

The Scriptures are crystal clear where Jesus will meet His Church, in 1 Thess.4:17: "After that, we who are still alive and are left, WILL BE CAUGHT UP TOGETHER with them in the clouds TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR. And so we will be with the Lord forever." In the FIRST of His TWO comings, recorded in 1 Thess.4:16, yet to take place, confirming Jn.14:2-3, 28! From where the Church is seen in heaven BEFORE the tribulation begins, in Rev.4:1-2. Where Jesus used John to symbolically represent the Church. Confirming 2 Thess.2:3 and 7-8! Where the Church is seen in heaven later, at the marriage of the Bride/Church to the Lamb/Jesus. While the tribulation is taking place on earth, recorded in Rev.19:7-8. From where Jesus will return to the earth in the SECOND, of His TWO comings, yet to take place, WITH HIS CHURCH, riding white horses, dressed in fine linen, white and clean, in His armies from heaven, recorded in 19:14, confirming Zech.14:4-5 and Acts 1:6; 1:11; 2:29-30 and 15:16! From which the above Scriptures leave no other options!

The difference between the pre-trib rapture of the Church, as delineated above, and the SECOND coming of Jesus are the following facts:

1. Jesus returns to the earth in His second coming, recorded in Zech.14:4-5 and in Acts 1:11.

2. No one meets Jesus in the sky when He returns in His second coming, recorded in Rev.19:14, as they will when He returns for the first time, recorded in 1 Thess.4:16!.

3. Jesus will return from the marriage of the Bride/Church to the Lamb/Jesus, in heaven, in His second coming, to the earth, with His Church, recorded in Rev.19:14, He came for in His first coming, in the clouds of the sky, seven years before, recorded in Jn.14:2-3, 28, 1 Thess.4:16-17 and 2 Thess.2:3 and 7-8.

4. No one returns to the present heaven at Jesus second coming to the earth, because He has come to establish His 1,000 year reign on the throne of David, in the restored kingdom of Israel, as recorded in Acts 1:6; 2:29-30; 15:16; Zech.6:12-13 described in Ez.40-47 and Rev.20:6. In addition to the present heaven and earth being destroyed and will pass away, as recorded in 2 Pet.3:7 and in Rev.21:1.

The Biblical teachings of the pre-trib rapture of the Church, by Jesus, Matthew, Luke, John and Paul, in the four post link below:

 

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/deeperwalk/the-biblical-teaching-of-the-pre-trib-rapture-of-t-t19401898.html

 

 

Quasar93