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Quasar93

Who and What are the Elect ?

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19 minutes ago, ForHisGlory37 said:

I test the men's words with God's Word and see if they match up because men are fallible and God is not.

 

We have all obtained the Word of God from men.

 

Quasar93

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2 hours ago, Quasar93 said:

 

You're saying we should not have listened to Jesus disciples or any of the men of God yhat have followed them since?  Ridiculous!

 

Quasar93

Nooo...I'm not saying that, an apostle did;

Acts 17

11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. 

Sooo...we hear the word and the more noble among search the scriptures to prove the truth. Your truth, mens truth, is judged by the Holy Scripture, the word of the Living God, Jesus Christ the Almighty and the wisdom of the Holy Spirit. Do you even read the scriptures? It sure seems you would know this being 80 years in the study of the bible.

Paul the Apostle.

1 Thess 5

21 "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." 

Prove all things, even those of the Spirit. How? Scripture! So the word of all men, apostles or not is to be proven by the true authority, and that ain't mankind.

 

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5 minutes ago, Quasar93 said:

 

We have all obtained the Word of God from men.

 

Quasar93

If you believe that you are more lost than I previously thought.

 

2 Timothy 3:16 (KJV)

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

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2 hours ago, Quasar93 said:

 

Where have you been?  The following has been posted here many times over,  Scripture fully supporting the pre-trib rapture of the Church.  The composition of it is mine. 

 

 

The Biblical teaching of the pre-trib rapture of the Church
 
Mt.24:31:
 And He will send His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His ELECT from the four winds [Israel - on earth], from one end of the heavens to the other [The Church Jesus will rapture before the seven year tribulation begins]. How did those ELECT get into heaven? Read on to find out.

Lk.21:36:
"Watch ye, therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man."

Jn.14:2-4 and 28:
"In my Father's house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you [See Jn.20:17]. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. You know the way to the place where I am going." [Jn.14:2-4].

"You heard me say, 'I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I." [Jn.14:28].

The Scriptures tell us where we all go, who belong to Christ, after the death of our bodies:
"We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord." As recorded in 2 Cor.5:8, confirming Ecc.12:7. Which is, in and of itself, conclusive to the fact that Jesus is not going to let the rest of His Church remain on earth to go through the seven year tribulation, when He returns for those of us who are still alive, waiting for His appearing, in 1 Thes.4:17. Since He raises all those who have died, to be with Him, immediately after their physical death, for more than 2,000 years.

1 Thes.4:13-18:
The Thessalonians were very concerned about those among them who had died, that they would not be gathered together with the rest of them when Jesus returned. Paul assures them in vs 13-14 that they will all be returning with Christ from heaven, where they have been since He raised them up to be with Him, the day they died physically, according to 2 Cor.5:6-8.

"We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him [Died physically]. Vs 14.

"According to the Lord's own word [Scriptural truth as to the fact that Jesus taught there was to be a pre-trib rapture of the Church, as recorded in Jn.14:2-4 and 28], we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left to the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep." Vs 15. An assurance by Paul to the Thessalonians that the dead in Christ had already been raised from the dead before, and were already with Christ when He returns for all those left on earth alive at His coming.

Because they have already been raised, each in his/her own turn, according to 1 Cor.15:23. That is the very reason it is not documented as a resurrection in the Scriptures.

"For the Lord Himself will come down from heaven [With all His saints [Church], according to vs 14], with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first" [Paul again assures them, as seen in verses 13-14, they were already previously raised once before, each in his/her own turn, as they died, for more than 2,000 years]. Vs 16.

"After that, we who are still alive and are left will be CAUGHT UP [raptured] together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the sky. And so we will be with the Lord forever." Vs 17. Where we proceed with Jesus to our Father in heaven as He promised us in Jn.14:2-4 and 28.

"Therefore encourage each other with these words." Vs 18.

2 Thess.2:1-8: The precise timing of the rapture of the Church:
"Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to Him, we ask you, brothers, not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the Day of the Lord [The 70th and final Week/seven year tribulation of Dan.9:27] has already come." 2 Thes.2:1-2. Which is a direct reference to 1 Thes.4:17 and the theme of Paul's entire pre-trib rapture message in 2 Thes.2:1-8. When we will be CAUGHT UP TOGETHER WITH THEM IN THE CLOUDS TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR. [Parenthetics mine].

The "Day of the Lord" Paul refers to in vs 2, alludes to Dan.9:27, when God will intervene into the affairs of man for the last time, culminating in the second coming of Jesus to the earth. In that passage of Scripture, the Day of the Lord is triggered by the "he" who "confirms a covenant [An agreement] for one Week" [The Day of the Lord/ 70th and final Week/seven year tribulation], who is the antichrist. The second, and same "he," who stops Israel from the offerings and sacrificing in the temple of God, and the third, and same "he," who breaks his covenant in the middle of the Week [After 3.5 of the 7 year total], and sets up the abomination of desolation Jesus referred to in Mt.24:15, in His Olivet Discourse, about the sign of His second coming, and of the end of the age.

In verse 3: "Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that Day [The Day of the Lord, the 70th and final Week, the seven year tribulation] will not come, until the "apostasia" [Greek term in which the original translation was "to depart," or "departure," meaning, the rapture of the Church] occurs and the man of lawlessness [The antichrist, and all three of the "he's" in Dan.9:27] is revealed [Who triggers the Day of the Lord/ the 70th and final Week/ the seven year tribulation], the man doomed to destruction." Which reveals the "apostasia" [Departure] will take place before the antichrist is revealed, who triggers the 70th Week/seven year tribulation. Confirmed in verses 7 and 8 below.

Translation History of apostasia and discessio: By Thomas Ice, PhD.
The first seven English translations of apostasia all rendered the noun as either " departure" or " departing." They are as follows: Wycliffe Bible (1384); Tyndale Bible (1526); Coverdale Bible (1535); Cranmer Bible (1539); Breeches Bible (1576); Beza Bible (1583); Geneva Bible (1608) . This supports the notion that the word truly means " departure." In fact, Jerome' s Latin translation known as the Vulgate from around the time of 325 A.D. renders apostasia with the " word discessio, meaning ' departure.' Why was the King James Version the first to depart from the established translation of "departure" in 1611 A.D.? [It is more than likely due to overzealous RCC scribes who altered the original wording of vs 3. to accommodate their teachings of Amillenialism, which rejects both the pre-trib rapture of the Church as well as Jesus Millennial reign her on earth].

Theodore Beza, the Swiss reformer was the first to transliterate apostasia and create a new word, rather than translate it as others had done. The translators of the King James Version were the first to introduce the new rendering of apostasia as " falling away." Most English translators have followed the KJV and Beza in departing from translating apostasia as " departure." No reason was ever given.

"He [The antichrist] will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God." Vs 4. [The abomination of desolation, confirming Dan.9:27 and Mt.24:15]. See also 2 Thes.2:4.

The rapture of the Church and verse 3 confirmed:
In vs 7: "For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so until he [The saints - Church] is taken out of the way."

The "he" who will be taken out of the way, is the one body of Christ, who bear the Holy Spirit within each of us [Eph.1:13-14], the Church of Jesus Christ. The very same as those who will participate in the "apostasia," the "departure," [the rapture] of the Church, in vs 3. Immediately following that:

In verse 8: "And then the lawless one [The antichrist] will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of His mouth and destroy by the splendor of His coming." Vs 8. [See Rev.19:17-21].

The antichrist is found in all three of the "he's" in Dan. 9:27, confirmed by Jesus in Mt.24:15; Mk.13:14 and by Paul, in 2 Thes.2:3, 4 and 8.

From the above Scriptural facts, there can be only one proper interpretation for the timing of the rapture of the Church, which will be immediately preceding the 70th and final/7 year tribulation, triggered by the antichrist, all three of the "he's" in Dan.9:27. Seen also as the first of the four horsemen of the apocalypse, riding the white horse, in the first of the seven seals, in Rev.6:2. There is no "pre-wrath" or post-trib rapture taught in the Scriptures.


Other verses pertaining to the rapture of the Church: 1 Thes.1:10; 1 Thes.5:9; Rev.3:10 and Rev.4:1-2. Of the saints [Church] returning with Christ from their marriage in heaven, in Rev.19:7, 8 and 14; Jude 14 and Zech.14:4-5!

The difference between the Second Coming of Christ and the pre-trib rapture of the Church:

http://www.pre-trib.org/data/pdf/Ice...eenTheRapt.pdf

 


Quasar93

I know you keep saying the above is proof, but you saying it does not make it true. All the above tells us is that there is a coming of Jesus while being littered with gross opinion on the timing and other things. No scripture shows the evidence for proof of the timing of a pretrib rapture. None. Plenty of scripture to prove the timing of the real and only gathering of the elect toward the end of the last half of the week. But the pretrib position? Nada.

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1 hour ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

Totally ridiculous

 

Is that so? You're not a big fan of scripture are you?

Acts 17

11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. 

Sooo...we hear the word and the more noble among search the scriptures to prove the truth. Your truth, mens truth, is judged by the Holy Scripture, the word of the Living God, Jesus Christ the Almighty and the wisdom of the Holy Spirit. Do you even read the scriptures? It sure seems you would know this.

Paul the Apostle.

1 Thess 5

21 "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." 

Prove all things, even those of the Spirit. How? Scripture! So the word of all men, apostles or not is to be proven by the true authority, and that ain't mankind.

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6 minutes ago, Diaste said:

If you believe that you are more lost than I previously thought.

 

2 Timothy 3:16 (KJV)

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

 

So you obtained the Word of God, other from hearing a preacher relate the Gospel to you, or that you read it from a Bible, printed by men?  Or did you obtain it by osmosis.  Maybe you obtained all you learned from God Himself?  Your eisegesis is not fooling anyone.  I suggest you look in the mirror for the one who is lost.

 

Quasar93 

 

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16 minutes ago, Diaste said:

Nooo...I'm not saying that, an apostle did;

Acts 17

11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. 

Sooo...we hear the word and the more noble among search the scriptures to prove the truth. Your truth, mens truth, is judged by the Holy Scripture, the word of the Living God, Jesus Christ the Almighty and the wisdom of the Holy Spirit. Do you even read the scriptures? It sure seems you would know this being 80 years in the study of the bible.

Paul the Apostle.

1 Thess 5

21 "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." 

Prove all things, even those of the Spirit. How? Scripture! So the word of all men, apostles or not is to be proven by the true authority, and that ain't mankind.

 

 

The words you read in your Biblewere written and printed by men, or you would not have them to read at all.  Capiche?!

 

Quasar93,

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1 minute ago, Quasar93 said:

 

So you obtained the Word of God, other from hearing a preacher relate the Gospel to you, or that you read it from a Bible, printed by men?  Or did you obtain it by osmosis.  Maybe you obtained all you learned from God Himself?  Your eisegesis is not fooling anyone.  I suggest you look in the mirror for the one who is lost.

 

Quasar93 

 

Why must you be deliberately inflammatory? This is a straw man and what is called reductio ad absurdum. You take the argument I made to a ridiculous proportion and then criticize the result. Scripture is God breathed and He used mankind to record His truth. 

I used to listen to men, all the time. It's how I got caught up in the pretrib deception. Once I began listening to the Word of God things cleared up immensely. You should try it.

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13 minutes ago, Diaste said:

I know you keep saying the above is proof, but you saying it does not make it true. All the above tells us is that there is a coming of Jesus while being littered with gross opinion on the timing and other things. No scripture shows the evidence for proof of the timing of a pretrib rapture. None. Plenty of scripture to prove the timing of the real and only gathering of the elect toward the end of the last half of the week. But the pretrib position? Nada.

 

No matter how long and hard you try making Jesus, Matthew, Luke, John and Paul liars, by your arrogant remarks, "what they say doesn't make it true."  Your argument consists of nothing but meaningless opinion.  Either field a Scripturally based argument for your views, or the Scriptures proving the pre-trib rapture of the Church thoroughly refute you.

 

Quasar93

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4 minutes ago, Quasar93 said:

 

The words you read in your Biblewere written and printed by men, or you would not have them to read at all.  Capiche?!

 

Quasar93,

No doubt the pen was moved by man's hand, but the mind and spirit was moved by the Holy Ghost. And it is not true I would not have them to read if men did not move a pen on paper. God used His own finger to write the ten commandments. In any case, scripture comes directly from God using mankind as a vehicle to transport the words from spirit to paper. That you do not realize this should be cause for concern. It concerns me greatly.

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