Who and What are the Elect ?

[Diaste]

Just now, Quasar93 said:

 

No matter how long and hard you try making Jesus, Matthew, Luke, John and Paul liars, by your arrogant remarks, "what they say doesn't make it true."  Your argument consists of nothing but meaningless opinion.  Either field a Scripturally based argument for your views, or the Scriptures proving the pre-trib rapture of the Church thoroughly refute you.

 

Quasar93

No. Not them, You. What you say is not true. What the pretrib cadre says is not true. Show scripture proving timing of the pretrib rapture; not your opinion, and I'll change.

[Quasar93]

1 minute ago, Diaste said:

No doubt the pen was moved by man's hand, but the mind and spirit was moved by the Holy Ghost. And it is not true I would not have them to read if men did not move a pen on paper. God used His own finger to write the ten commandments. In any case, scripture comes directly from God using mankind as a vehicle to transport the words from spirit to paper. That you do not realize this should be cause for concern. It concerns me greatly.

 

No amount of hot air is going to change the fact that you would not have the Word of God, if it were not both the men of God to preach the Gospel and the Bibles printed nd published by man, period!  End of report!  Your concerns for my salvation is touching, but you need not be , as I believed/received Jesus Christ as my personal Lord and Savior at a Presbyterian Bible Conference, at Lake Sammamish, WA. [Near Seattle], in August of 1937, while in High School.  Around a campfire with other attendees, testifying before the others. And where, may I ask, did you receive Jesus as your Lord nd Savior?

 

Quasar93

 

 

[Quasar93]

10 minutes ago, Diaste said:

No. Not them, You. What you say is not true. What the pretrib cadre says is not true. Show scripture proving timing of the pretrib rapture; not your opinion, and I'll change.

 

You re saying the Scriptural teachings of the coming pre-trib rapture of the Church is not true, because I posted it?  Show me which of the Scriptures are not true, you are calling the authors liars of!

 

Quasar93

[Diaste]

Translation History of apostasia and discessio: By Thomas Ice, PhD.
The first seven English translations of apostasia all rendered the noun as either " departure" or " departing." They are as follows: Wycliffe Bible (1384); Tyndale Bible (1526); Coverdale Bible (1535); Cranmer Bible (1539); Breeches Bible (1576); Beza Bible (1583); Geneva Bible (1608) . This supports the notion that the word truly means " departure." In fact, Jerome' s Latin translation known as the Vulgate from around the time of 325 A.D. renders apostasia with the " word discessio, meaning ' departure.' Why was the King James Version the first to depart from the established translation of "departure" in 1611 A.D.? [It is more than likely due to overzealous RCC scribes who altered the original wording of vs 3. to accommodate their teachings of Amillenialism, which rejects both the pre-trib rapture of the Church as well as Jesus Millennial reign her on earth].

Theodore Beza, the Swiss reformer was the first to transliterate apostasia and create a new word, rather than translate it as others had done. The translators of the King James Version were the first to introduce the new rendering of apostasia as " falling away." Most English translators have followed the KJV and Beza in departing from translating apostasia as " departure." No reason was ever given.

Please, no one be deceived by the above. Check it for yourself. Thomas Ice is promoting an agenda and is not speaking the truth. What these church leaders and theologians have done is use the definition of another word for apostasia. While is it possible to misconstrue origins and arrive at egregious error in translation, the root idea of aphistemi, from which the wolves derive the incorrect definition, is a departure from an ideology; not a departure from one place to another, as they would have you believe.

Further, apo, histemi, the roots of aphistemi, nor aphistemi appear in the original Greek texts; aposatsia does. The etymology of apostasia, from well before the time Paul wrote 2 Thess 2 was always defined as revolt or defection. You can check this for yourself. The original Greek NT is online as well as resources for eytmology, definitions and usage. While you're at it check the meaning of aphistemi as well, you'll see it's a departure from previous belief or ideology.

For your consideration:

 

apostasia: defection, revolt

Original Word: ἀποστασία, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: apostasia
Phonetic Spelling: (ap-os-tas-ee'-ah)
Short Definition: defection, apostasy
Definition: defection, apostasy, revolt.

646 apostasía (from 868 /aphístēmi, "leave, depart," which is derived from 575 /apó, "away from" and 2476 /histémi, "stand") –

properly, departure (implying desertion); 

apostasy – literally, "a leaving, from a previous standing."

[Diaste]

6 minutes ago, Quasar93 said:

 

You re saying the Scriptural teachings of the coming pre-trib rapture of the Church is not true, because I posted it?  Show me which of the Scriptures are not true, you are calling the authors liars of!

 

Quasar93

No, not because you posted it; that lie was started well before you were born. But you are repeating.

It's not the scripture you posted that's wrong. It's the lack of scriptural evidence FOR THE TIMING of the pretrib rapture; while at the same time there is explicit scripture for the timing of the only real gathering at the appearing of Jesus near the very end, just before wrath falls. The scriptures are correct, the conclusion is incorrect.

[Quasar93]

25 minutes ago, Diaste said:

No. Not them, You. What you say is not true. What the pretrib cadre says is not true. Show scripture proving timing of the pretrib rapture; not your opinion, and I'll change.

 

Cut out the opinionated arguing and prove your claims with Scripture.  That which I have posted proving the pre-trib rapture refutes you, whether you accept it or not.

 

Quasar93

[Diaste]

16 minutes ago, Quasar93 said:

 

No amount of hot air is going to change the fact that you would not have the Word of God, if it were not both the men of God to preach the Gospel and the Bibles printed nd published by man, period!  End of report!  Your concerns for my salvation is touching, but you need not be , as I believed/received Jesus Christ as my personal Lord and Savior at a Presbyterian Bible Conference, at Lake Sammamish, WA. [Near Seattle], in August of 1937, while in High School.  Around a campfire with other attendees, testifying before the others. And where, may I ask, did you receive Jesus as your Lord nd Savior?

 

Quasar93

 

 

Even so, the Word of God is from God and all men stand in judgement by that same Word. If any man does not say the thing that is correct according to the scriptures, then they do not speak from God. But again your knowledge and understanding of scripture are incomplete. How did Enoch, Elijah, Noah, Abraham, Job, and many, many others know the Lord our God? They did not have scripture. You place way too much stock in mankind.

[Quasar93]

4 minutes ago, Diaste said:

No, not because you posted it; that lie was started well before you were born. But you are repeating.

It's not the scripture you posted that's wrong. It's the lack of scriptural evidence FOR THE TIMING of the pretrib rapture; while at the same time there is explicit scripture for the timing of the only real gathering at the appearing of Jesus near the very end, just before wrath falls. The scriptures are correct, the conclusion is incorrect.

 

Prove your views with Scripture, or get out of the kitchen, where it's too hot for you to handle, because your opinions without a stitch of viable support is meaningless now and always will be.

 

Quasar93

[Diaste]

1 minute ago, Quasar93 said:

 

Cut out the opinionated arguing and prove your claims with Scripture.  That which I have posted proving the pre-trib rapture refutes you, whether you accept it or not.

 

Quasar93

Matt 24

Mark 13

Luke 21

2 Thess 2

The only gathering explicitly stated and that at the end of the last week.

[Diaste]

1 minute ago, Quasar93 said:

 

Prove your views with Scripture, or get out of the kitchen, where it's too hot for you to handle, because your opinions without a stitch of viable support is meaningless now and always will be.

 

Quasar93

You know the scripture. You just need to adjust your thinking through sincere prayer and honest seeking of the ways of the Lord.