What kind of Body did Jesus have after His resurrection ?

[Guest shiloh357]

Just now, Heleadethme said:

Oh I'm always happy to answer questions when they are asked in good faith, brother.  See you around.

I asked you in good faith and that got me labeled as carnal.   I asked you several times about Rev. 22:16 and you avoided it like the plague.   You seem to have an aversion to answering simple questions.

[Heleadethme]

10 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

I have not accused you of anything. I have been trying to get you to clarify your position.  Apparently, you have some weird notion that asking you is the same as accusing you.

refresh your memory bro....page 2. 

[Heleadethme]

5 minutes ago, Davida said:

You continue to refuse to answer the question and continually deflect-- that is deception. 

What a weariness this conversation has become, like a number of others I have seen.......but you should go see how the Pharisees questioned Jesus and how He responded.  I'm done here sis, take care.

[Guest shiloh357]

8 minutes ago, Heleadethme said:

refresh your memory bro....page 2. 

I accused you of avoiding the questions about Rev. 22:16.   I asked you if you rejected the fact that Jesus is still Jewish.   You appear to have a problem with that.   That is not accusation; it is an observation.

[Heleadethme]

24 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

I accused you of avoiding the questions about Rev. 22:16.   I asked you if you rejected the fact that Jesus is still Jewish.   You appear to have a problem with that.   That is not accusation; it is an observation.

Guess I better quote you after all then Shiloh from p. 2:

Well, no you don't accept what the Bible says because you deny the words of Jesus:

I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, 

[Heleadethme]

7 minutes ago, Davida said:

Oh so weary dodging questions? ....I guess?

 

Oy......why is it so hard to just take a hint sister, good golly.  I really need to go finish cooking dinner for my crew here, shalom.

[Guest shiloh357]

20 minutes ago, Heleadethme said:

Guess I better quote you after all then Shiloh from p. 2:

Well, no you don't accept what the Bible says because you deny the words of Jesus:

I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, 

And you never corrected my understanding about that.   You consistently ignore Rev. 22:16 because it clearly shows that Jesus is still Jewish.    You attributed that to me being carnal, because it deflects from something that you don't want to acknowledge.  

Do you have a problem with Jesus still being Jewish?

[ScottA]

On 12/24/2017 at 6:34 AM, Quasar93 said:

What kind of Body did Jesus have after His resurrection ?

For those who would like to explore an alternative view to what Jesus post resurrection body was, let me pose this question for you:

As we read in John 1:1-2, reference to the Word, is equated as that of Jesus: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.  He was with God in the beginning."  In John 17:5: "And now Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began."  In Proverbs 8:22-23: "The Lord brought me forth as the first of His works, before His deeds of old; I was appointed from eternity, from the beginning, before the world began."  Finally, in Col.1:15: "He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation." 

As such, the pre-incarnate Jesus was the first of YHWH's heavenly host spirit world, consisting of angels, through whom He created the universe according to Heb.1:1-2: "In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days He has spoken to us by His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, and through whom He made the universe."

The pre-incarnate Jesus was seen in the old testament at various times, physically materialized [called a theophany], as well as angels, such as being referred to as Lord, in Genesis 18, 19 and in Genesis 32, where Jacob wrestled with Him and called Him God.  In Jos.5:13-15 where he is the Captain of God's army from heaven.  Again in Nebuchadnezzar's fiery furnace when He appeared as the fourth man in the furnace with Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego, in Daniel 3:25, among a number of other places.

Which brings us to the issues in 1 Cor.15:42-44: "So will it be with the resurrection of the dead.  The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakeness, it is raised in power; it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body." And in verse 50: "I declare to you brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable."

And again in 1 Cor.15:52-54: "In a flash, in a twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet.  Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed - in a flash, in a twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet: For the trumpet will sound the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.  For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality., then the saying that is written will come true: "Death has been swallowed up in victory." 

Now the question is, was the pre-incarnate body of Jesus the same as His resurrected body, since it had all the characteristics of a physical human body?  As illustrated above  in both the bodies of the pre-incarnate Jesus, as well as the angels who appeared fully materialized, God sent on various missions to earth in the old testament.  Such as those with Abraham, in Genesis 18, 19, and 32  when he wrestled with Jacob, as well as the captain of God's army in Jos.5:13-15,  where they both ate and were physically active?
 
If not, provide examples of why the visible glorified body of Jesus, was not the very same as that of His pre-incarnate body, empowered to be materialized and fully physical, when He was resurrected.  In the very same way as the angels who appeared in visible bodies, all with every physical aspect of the mortal physical bodies of human beings.  A case and point is recorded in Acts 9:7, where Jesus accosted Saul and the men with him on the road to Damascus, when they heard him, but no one saw Him.
 
 
Quasar93

He "became flesh." Which is not to say, that He was transformed from one existence to another, but rather that He was "born", that being of the flesh. 

Jesus explains also being born [again] of the spirit, that the two are different.

Paul, then elaborates to say, one is the "old" and the other "new"...a new and different "creation."

The answer to your question, then, is that Jesus had no pre-incarnate body as such.

God is spirit. Therefore, Jesus' pre-incarnate existence was spirit. Which, if you want to imagine is a "body" is fine, but does not do justice to His being One with God, as if He were a mere "creation" of God's even before the foundation of the world. No, the foundation of the world was the foundation and formation of matter, of "bodies" as we know it. So as not to give the wrong idea or "image", "bodies" must be defined differently than is commonly understood. Paul, gives examples, for instance, saying that there are different types of bodies. But also said, "However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual." This is what makes Jesus also, fully man.

Now then, back to the question: That means that Jesus' body after the resurrection was flesh and bone. Which is not so, with His body after His ascension, which would have to be spirit to be God. It is the resurrection that shows Christ's victory over death, but the ascension that shows His attaining glory.

Edited January 4, 2018 by ScottA

[Quasar93]

9 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

Except in the ancient near east culture, out of which the Bible originated, and in the context of how Paul used the term, "firstborn"  isn't a reference to being  the first born in a family.   It is a title.   Even a child who was adopted into a family could the title of firstborn.   "Firstborn"  isn't  "first born" as Paul uses it.  

The Bible doesn't "teach" the Trinity doctrine, but it demonstrates it.   We see it in operation in the Bible.   And frankly, it doesn't matter how long you have studied the Bible.   You're not qualified to teach it since you have not really been to any Bible colleges (though you falsely claim that you have).

 

Show me where Jesus or His disciples, or the Bible ever taught the Trinity, genius!  You are really brainwashed with your concept of what FIRSTBORN MEANS in Col.1:15.  Show me where the Bible "demonstrates God is a Trinity!

 

Quasar93

[Quasar93]

5 hours ago, ScottA said:

He "became flesh." Which is not to say, that He was transformed from one existence to another, but rather that He was "born", that being of the flesh. 

Jesus explains also being born [again] of the spirit, that the two are different.

Paul, then elaborates to say, one is the "old" and the other "new"...a new and different "creation."

The answer to your question, then, is that Jesus had no pre-incarnate body as such.

God is spirit. Therefore, Jesus' pre-incarnate existence was spirit. Which, if you want to imagine is a "body" is fine, but does not do justice to His being One with God, as if He were a mere "creation" of God's even before the foundation of the world. No, the foundation of the world was the foundation and formation of matter, of "bodies" as we know it. So as not to give the wrong idea or "image", "bodies" must be defined differently than is commonly understood. Paul, gives examples, for instance, saying that there are different types of bodies. But also said, "However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual." This is what makes Jesus also, fully man.

Now then, back to the question: That means that Jesus' body after the resurrection was flesh and bone. Which is not so, with His body after His ascension, which would have to be spirit to be God. It is the resurrection that shows Christ's victory over death, but the ascension that shows His attaining glory.

 

Hi Scott:

Have you seen 1 Cor.15:44?

 

Quasar93