The Dark Side of Christianity

[simplejeff]

3 minutes ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

Its easy for lots of folks who have a pet sin to sit under those who teach DONT JUDGE we all sinners. 

Not just one little (as if it could be that it doesn't make much difference),

but like mold, mildew, cancer,  it is systemic and pernicious - death-dealing- ,  both to the one who carries it willingly, but to all those around them,  worse by far than second hand smoke is to babies.

[frienduff thaylorde]

6 minutes ago, simplejeff said:

Not just one little (as if it could be that it doesn't make much difference),

but like mold, mildew, cancer,  it is systemic and pernicious - death-dealing- ,  both to the one who carries it willingly, but to all those around them,  worse by far than second hand smoke is to babies.

By all means its far worse than second hand smoke to babies.     While second hand smoke can physically harm the baby

THIS STUFF they do and preach,  KILLS and KILLS TWICE at its end.   SPIRITUALLY DEAD heading towards the second death , IF they repent not . 

[frienduff thaylorde]

Just now, frienduff thaylorde said:

By all means its far worse than second hand smoke to babies.     While second hand smoke can physically harm the baby

THIS STUFF they do and preach,  KILLS and KILLS TWICE at its end.   SPIRITUALLY DEAD heading towards the second death , IF they repent not . 

AND yes,  ITS THAT SERIOUS.    Guess maybe when JAMES said you who convert the sinner from the error of his way , has saved a SOUL from DEATH,  sure

makes sense .   ITS THAT SERIOUS to correct erring members.   But try telling that to most .      And all they say Is YOU FINE , GOD IS LOVE .

but no grave, no seriousness, no doing all for the sake of the other,  nope its hug and lets be friends and GOD is LOVE and thus all is well.    ONLY all aint well.

Cause GOD don't change.    TIS why HE WARNS and those of him SHOULD WARN any in error.   the HOLY SPIRIT of GOD , IF WE HAVE IT

WOULD UNCTION US to warn any we see in error.    FOR it desires not that the wicked perish but rather they repent and have life.  

[Heleadethme]

On 12/26/2017 at 2:14 PM, DesertSW said:

Let me first start off with a disclaimer. I believe in the Word of God and in all the fundamental tenants of Christianity. I became a Christian back in 1993 when I accepted Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior. I gave up trusting in my good works and put all my faith in what Jesus had done on the cross, for my salvation.

The "dark side" I speak of is something that is not really talked about or discussed in churches. I've attended all types of protestant churches in the past 25 years (Baptist, denominational, non-denominational) and not one really discussed this aspect of Christianity. It is factually evident and not just experiential, although I have personally experienced it, it is backed by factual evidence.

This dark side is about how born-again Christians will betray you and the faith. I've personally experienced 10 of those betrayals over the course of 25 years. The latest one which was my wife, and her parents, was the most devastating. You can read about it here:

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/topic/211844-my-marriage-divorce-testimony/

It would take quite a bit of typing to go into deep detail on these betrayals but all of them involved true Believers who ended up betraying and hurting me in such ways that left deep scars that will never go away. These betrayals involved lying, breaking promises, breaking vows/covenants, leaving the faith/church, disobeying tenants of the faith and sinning against God and breaking clear Biblical tenants, church splits and behavior that would make unbelievers blush.

Modern Christianity kind of paints a picture that once you are surrounded by other Christians, things will be OK and that they will always love and honor God. That is completely false and this dark side is not discussed because it would turn off those "seekers" or unbelievers as they would clearly see hypocrisy. If the saved Christian church is no different than the unsaved sector of society, then it offers nothing different than secular society.

If we are honest, then we should put out a disclaimer in the churches. Something like this should be in the doctrinal statement after all the major tenants of the faith are posted:

Having stated the above doctrinal positions, we want to clearly state that there are times when true believers and followers of the Christian faith will do things that will grieve and shock you, sin and dishonor God, His Word and even hurt other Christians in that process. This is part of the free will that God gives believers. Even though they are indwelt with the Holy Spirit, believers will at times hurt you and sin against you and God. These incidents will really hurt you and rock you to the core as one believes that a Christian shouldn't act that way, which they shouldn't, but can and will act that way. Pastors will sin, wives & husbands will deceive & sin, brothers and sisters in Christ will lie, dishonor, sin and hurt you.

It is important to understand this facet of the Christian faith. To enter into the Christian faith thinking that other Christians can't or will not do such things is only setting up yourself for disappointment and shock. That might, in effect, make your faith stumble. So it is best that we as a church make this disclaimer that Christians can and will do these things. It is a sad but factual truth of the human being, even when indwelt with the Holy Spirit, that they will do these things. So it is best to be prepared when those incidents occur that it is not the Christian faith that failed, but that person who failed. They failed to follow God and His Word. Christians will disappoint you, sin against you and hurt you, please be prepared that this can and most likely will occur in your lifelong journey as a Christian.

 

I'm very sorry for what you experienced.  It's like those who sighed and cried and vexed in righteous soul for all the abominations committed in the church.  It is so true that though the number of "Israelites" (Christians) be as the sand of the seashore only a remnant will be saved.  Add to that the fact that the church is falling away and we have a very sad situation in Christendom.  Probably this has been brought up by others already, but an overemphasis and misunderstanding of grace (aka Christian political correctness) has allowed sin of every kind to flourish in the churches........and just like it says in scripture Christians have become worse than the pagans around us.  The church is ripe for judgment.........best to flee it and not receive of her plagues.

[frienduff thaylorde]

7 minutes ago, Heleadethme said:

I'm very sorry for what you experienced.  It's like those who sighed and cried and vexed in righteous soul for all the abominations committed in the church.  It is so true that though the number of "Israelites" (Christians) be as the sand of the seashore only a remnant will be saved.  Add to that the fact that the church is falling away and we have a very sad situation in Christendom.  Probably this has been brought up by others already, but an overemphasis and misunderstanding of grace (aka Christian political correctness) has allowed sin of every kind to flourish in the churches........and just like it says in scripture Christians have become worse than the pagans around us.  The church is ripe for judgment.........best to flee it and not receive of her plagues.

Pc has destroyed the churches as well.    Today if I were to see a red dog with big teeth

and warned ,    Most would scream HATER,  you judging   How do you know its not really a scarlet canine with large incisors.

YEAH GO FIGURE that one for a bit.   We cant call even a spade a spade anymore without being accused ourselves.

[DesertSW]

Like I mentioned earlier. I don't believe in those who claim "they were never Christians to begin with" explanation. I fully believe they are Christians and I fully believe in eternal security. While eternal security is not what this thread about, that is where some have taken it.

It's like being married for 15 years and then having your spouse cheat on you. Then others "explain" this cheating by saying, "well, she was never your wife/husband to begin with, you were never truly married". That's how ludicrous the "they were never Christian to begin with" statements are.

Your wife or husband is your wife or husband, you are married to each other, even though the spouse might do something very sinful (adultery), they are your spouse but they can and do things to betray and hurt you. The positional stance (marriage) doesn't change simply because they betray you. 

[frienduff thaylorde]

1 hour ago, DesertSW said:

Like I mentioned earlier. I don't believe in those who claim "they were never Christians to begin with" explanation. I fully believe they are Christians and I fully believe in eternal security. While eternal security is not what this thread about, that is where some have taken it.

It's like being married for 15 years and then having your spouse cheat on you. Then others "explain" this cheating by saying, "well, she was never your wife/husband to begin with, you were never truly married". That's how ludicrous the "they were never Christian to begin with" statements are.

Your wife or husband is your wife or husband, you are married to each other, even though the spouse might do something very sinful (adultery), they are your spouse but they can and do things to betray and hurt you. The positional stance (marriage) doesn't change simply because they betray you. 

AND that is what I try and explain to OSAS.   that THEY WERE ONCE CHRISTAIN.  BUT DID fall away.  CAUSE as our spouses can commit adultery against

us ,   Many that enter the new convenant end up in spiritual adultery aainst the very one they was wed too.  BEEEEAUTIFUL explanation DESERTS SW.

You proved me point.   Thank you.     This is why I say exhortdaily   LEST any become HARDENED through the deceitfulness of SIN.    THANK YOU .   very much.  and praise the LORD>

[creativemechanic]

On 26/12/2017 at 4:34 PM, DesertSW said:

I'm sorry, no offense to you, but I have heard this response 1,000x and it's hogwash.

That's the "go to" response for Christians behaving badly. The old tried and true, "well, they weren't Christians to begin with."

It's the "Escape" button that Christians press when the dilemma of Christians doing sinful and evil things comes up. But that's all it is, an excuse and a quick way to try and squash the problem.

The reality is that real Christians do sin and commit evil acts against other Christians. The reality is then Christians don't address the problem and run to the "they weren't Christians to begin with".

So even though a TRUE Christian served Christ and the church for 20 years, commits a sin and violates God's Word. Then the "Christians can't do no wrong" group comes out and throws that Christian under the bus and claims they weren't a true believer to begin with.

That response and belief should be rolled up and placed under a bird cage because that is where it belongs. The reality is Christians sin and do things that they shouldn't do. They hurt others and sin against people and God. To say otherwise is a disgrace and to put one's head in the sand.

 

 

I agree. I don't put us Chrostians past doing stuff like thst  because we aren't perfect and are all subject to doing  wrong.  myself included  I could  wrong others just as they can wrong me.  what matters to me is the attitude.  in that when this wrong is identified we should seek forgivnrss  and tryvto turn away. it's when we refuse it and see no wrong that concerns me

[simplejeff]

5 minutes ago, creativemechanic said:

it's when we refuse it and see no wrong that concerns me

Jesus is LIGHT,  bring all things , everything, to HIM to see what He wants you to see.

It is natural - the normal human thing, to refuse to admit being wrong, especially for religious posters and zealots taught by some ear-tickling evangelists , etc ....  this is far far more common than a true teacher/ true preacher. (the true are hard to find) ..... 

So always test everything by God's Word.  (BEFORE accepting it).   Read the Bible thru and thru, putting all trust in the Father, seeking Him,  every day.  Only He is able to reveal the truth and give understanding of His Word.  He is able to do what men cannot do.

[simplejeff]

1 minute ago, Butero said:

There is one person that said they don't know why anyone wouldn't want to believe in unconditional eternal security.  I don't know why anyone wouldn't like that idea either. 

Because it directly is a FALSE GOSPEL - anathema.