Church and abusive marriages

[angels4u]

Men and women are open for counseling if The Holy Spirit convicts them ,what the woman need to do first of all is pray and talk to her minister ,if it's a dangerous situation call the police and take children out of the house I did see God work out amazing things in many marriages,He kept us together,no marriage doesn't go through ups and downs,they key is to trust God ,read and obey His Word ,don,t expect answers from people but bring all your worries and concerns to the Lord,He will come to the rescue ,He will let you know of what to do....

Don,t forget that happiness is not promise s but God did promise to stay with us until the end,many marriages break up because of selffish behaviors:(

   Call upon the Lord!

We,re all pilgrims traveling to our eternal home.

By all means keep everybody safe a d do phone the police if needed 

 

[angels4u]

2 hours ago, naominash said:

I don't think abusers should be treated non-judgementally. Unless they repent truly, they aren't Christians.

Naomi ,abusers are often people who have been abused ,they need real friends who will tell them what the Bible is teaching us of how to treat our spouse and other people,how can you expect people to live the Christian if they don,t know how? You,re still young ,go to the Lord if problems arrise,and I pray you go to a good solid Bible believing church who can support you and your husband,we all need each other to grow in our walk with God . Don,t ever allow dangerous situations,love you sister:) Angels

 

[angels4u]

14 hours ago, bryan said:

Theoretical situation:  Suppose a married couple is a long term member of a church with men's and women's bible studies.  Through one of these meetings, a married women in the church describes how her husband beats her.  Other things may be involved such as stress, money, or anger issues but not illegal drugs.   All people here are dedicated, long term Christians.  At times, the abuse may be 'justified' by the husband through scripture.

Question: How involved, if any, should a church be involved in trying to help married couples that are in abusive marriages?   What should they do?

I've heard of a surprising number of Christian married couples where the wife was abused in the past.  In some cases, they're currently being abused but the wife feels they must tolerate it to protect their children or for some other reason.  Being married and living in the same home frequently with children, they frequently don't feel they have options for help.   If they go to the police, they're frequently ignored, told they need to file for divorce, move out, or more before they police can help.  

Should the church be a resource to help in these cases?  How could a woman ask for help in such a situation?  Should the church pastor, elders, or others get involved directly and confront the husband about this?   What all could be done?  There are many questions here, so I'll leave it at this point for discussion.

 

 

  

The key is to keep them focused on the Lord and not to be wise in their own eyes,of course does the church  need to help people who are getting abused,it's our Christiab duty to look out for each others well being and safety.

Let 2 or 3 elders go to this person and talk to him 

[JesusIsLord92]

I know someone in an abusive marriage and prayer isn’t working. I’ve prayed and prayed and the person will not change. The woman doesn’t know how to leave the man as the man needs care and refuses to leave and the woman is unable to arrange care for him or financially able to leave him. She is so unhappy

[Neighbor]

Christians, married Christians have marital problems (too). Some involve poor behavior towards the other marriage partner. Some pastors are skilled at marriage counseling, but certainly  not all are. Elders who are to be above reproach in their own marriage may be good counselors too, but not all are.  Same with deaconesses or even deacons, but all should have enough knowledge to get a person in trouble to the help they need. If they aren't that is a serious shortfall within a local body of Christ that needs serious  improving upon!

Many church personnel know of the NANC network of counselors, and many local church bodies even organize and sponsor their own membership in training to become counselors for stronger Christian marriage relations. The Nouthetic Counseling training is one such system. NANC as it is called has lists of counselors and the regions where they  are serving. There is also  a Christian counselors certification group that may be of help in finding good help.

Our own local body of Christ Jesus has one pastor-teacher specifically assigned to marriage counseling and oversees some seven counselors here. It has been my own experience being around it ( The counseling and the people being counseled) that almost any marriage can get in trouble, and can involve abuse, in fact it almost has to involve abuse, as there is a spiritual as well as a physical battle going on within the marriages. Hard people do become Christians, and they do bring their old self with them  as they do. It is a slow process of personal sanctification that occurs in most all of us, and for some though the mind has accepted Christ Jesus and the spirit wants to do better the old self the old trainning works against that which  is born again.  

Help is available spiritual help as well as physical help. If threatened physically then absolutely  law enforcement needs to be involved. There is no separation of State and Church when it comes to protecting life and limb from harm. They may not work well together because State is  ungodly today, but still state can protect the physical body  in ways the church  is not equipped for.

[Neighbor]

 Hi,

Then we simply disagree naominash.

Having been through marriage counseling, also having a wife as a trained NANC Nouthetic counselor, and being around  the counselors at  a local church body, plus knowing so many of the marriage partners counseled, I have gained some knowledge of the process of learning the word of God as it pertains to marriage and getting aid in making practical application of it in a marriage. Working through  the various causes of stress and angers, including financial strains, is of great  personal benefit to marriage partners.

 It is not necessary that you agree. I simply share of my own vantage point and observation and experiences. My testimony is that there is help, and there is help within the churches of my Lord Jesus, and that many are working through one group with success that I personally know about. No one needs suffer injury, nor attack. I already stated the government  is suited for that immediate protective need, but yes an abusive person can be counseled too. I have watched it  over many years. in fact I suspect there is much more physical  manifestation than there is mental abuses in marriage difficulties. That poice may be involve dis no reason that God and the church body cannot also be involved.

[Heleadethme]

12 hours ago, Neighbor said:

Hi,

Theoretical - you have heard  - surprising number - all people Christians - ignored help -

???????????????????????????

Sorry I just can't comment on the need for real help to theoretical things heard about, because I  cannot follow it. 

But "church" is no an  excuse for ignoring civil and criminal law with it's assigned  responsibility to help any person under attack. Churched individuals do get involved. Call 911 and intercede too, if any person is being injured by another. Don't stop then to read Matthew 18. Know the plan ahead of any event occurring and then work the plan as events unfold.

 

The bible tells us clearly how to deal with sin in the church in the epistles, I'm sure you have read it sometime Neighbour......first go to the offender in private, if he will not hear, then bring two or three witnesses, if he still will not hear then bring him before the whole church....shine a big bright light on his sin until it has nowhere to hide.......but if there is still no repentance he is to be cast out of fellowship until such time as he has a change of heart (and this would need to be discerned not just believed what the person says with his mouth, but look for fruits in keeping with repentance before trusting him alone with his wife again):

1 Corinthians 6:1-7

Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?

Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?

Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.

I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?

But  brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers.

Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded?

 

 

 

 

[Neighbor]

Like with eternal salvation itself, it is not the testimony that saves, it is God. And God will save who He will save. He will turn about who he wills be turned about. It is the duty of  the saint to share of their own testimony  of Jesus. What a trained counselor can do that most of us cannot do as well is to listen patiently and the give the testimony of faith  of the gospel of Jesus and also the listing of  the manner that a marriage should work, and the application  of that  in individual marriages and lives. And then come alongside that marriage and help both partners and their offspring on a daily walk if necessary  until life patterns change as the Holy Spirit works. is it easy? Nope. Can there be failures? Sure. But there is always reason to continue on in sharing and guiding, shepherding; that is because eternity  forward is at stake for all members of the family unit. In no way does that mean anyone need sit and suffer danger from another person. Often counseling is done where the individuals are separated or even divorced and are just trying to battle over kids visitations and financial support. The subject is more encompassing than simply abuse, whether physical or mental.

[Heleadethme]

34 minutes ago, naominash said:

She needs practical help like the Good Samaritan provided. 

Can you be a good listener? 

Can you provide it help provide a place she can go as well as legal help?

Can you rally people to support her and let her know she's not alone? That you've got her back?

 

In my opinion, as long as she stays, the abuser has no incentive to change. 

Abusers are good at making their victims feel completely dependent on them. And sometimes, they are financially. 

But there are resources that can help.

And when she prays, let her know it's okay to pray for God to act justly against her abuser. David prayed like that. I see nothing wrong with it.

Let justice and mercy reign over fear, cheap grace, and wickedness-enabling theology.

@Neighbor

Abuse is not just another Christian marital problem. I don't agree with counseling for marriages with domestic abuse because it's the abuser who is tearing apart the marriage, not the victim.

Also, how long does it take a Christian to stop abusing? And does the victim really have to wait that out?

A few things may I comment on sister......I know the churches have failed miserably at dealing with sin in their ranks......and I mean an utter fail, I'm sure we agree there.  And it is for the very reason that they have failed to do according to how the bible instructs us on dealing with sin in the Body of Christ.  It does condemn going to the law against our brother......but the apostles do tell us how we can handle sinful situations effectively in the Lord.  Physical abuse is not a reason to divorce, separation certainly, but not divorce.........the issue of the two becoming one flesh and no man tearing asunder what God has joined together is a serious one........sexual purity is of UTMOST importance to salvation and holiness and without it no-one will see the Lord.  I know we have been led astray by a church that is falling away in these last days, and a famine of His words, so there is a dire need to come back to the Lord and how He says to do things in His word.....dear sister, we are all to love our enemies, forgiving them and doing good to them and pray FOR them, not against them.   Remember Jesus saying,"you have heard it said, and eye for an eye etc, but I say unto to you........ "  It's a new covenant in the spirit and no longer an old covenant of flesh and earthly things, so in Christ we serve in the new way of the Spirit now.........foolishness to the perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

[missmuffet]

2 minutes ago, naominash said:

We will not agree on the issue of whether abuse is grounds for divorce. But I agree with the heart of your message.

 

Loving our enemies does not necessarily mean reconciling or trusting them. It means you help them if they need help, and give to them while in need. But it does not mean that an abuse victims needs to stay with their abuser.

I believe, forgiveness means renouncing personal vengeance. Saying that it means more is something that is used to control and coerce abusive victims into going back to spiritually and physically dangerous situations.

 

Here is why I believe abuse can be grounds for divorce.

1 Corinthians 7:15King James Version (KJV)

¹⁵ But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.

 

I don't think chronic abusers are believers because the fruit of the Spirit is not fits of rage, abuse, and controlling behaviors. It it's the abuser who destroys a marriage by abusing and desertion, not a victim who gets the courage to walk away.

The church has no mercy when they prioritize a victim's marriage over the safety and soul of the victim. They are idolizing marriage for the sake of their own reputations, when in fact, Christ came to set captives free.

In so far as the church refuses to deal just lying with abusers, children will be lead to believe we are hypocrites and victims will continue to suffer.

God wants us to live in peace. He does not want to see a life taken because a husband has killed his wife in abuse. Sometimes verbal abuse is just as bad or worse. He would support it if a wife separated from an abusive husband and also if there are children involved getting them to safety. Sometimes a person has a weak excuse to leave a spouse or to divorce but abuse is not one of them. What is important is to try to see those abusive patterns before you marry the person.