Church and abusive marriages

[Heleadethme]

39 minutes ago, TickledPinkinChristWoot! said:

Where did Jesus teach about divorce and remarriage? Not Paul's letters, Jesus himself. 

Tickled Pink.......look up Matthew 5, Matthew 19, Mark 10 and Luke 16.......just read prayerfully........and believe it.

[TickledPinkinChristWoot!]

2 hours ago, bryan said:

Laws for divorce and marriage really below in a separate discussion, but I'll add some notes here.  Let's try to keep the current discussion in this thread focused on the original questions.

 

Divorce for neglect included divorce for abuse, because this was extreme neglect. There was no question about that end of the spectrum of neglect, but what about the other end? What about abandonment, which was merely a kind of passive neglect? This was an uncertain matter, so Paul deals with it. He says to all believers that they may not abandon their partners, and if they have done so, they should return (1 Cor. 7:10-12). In the case of someone who is abandoned by an unbeliever—someone who won't obey the command to return—he says that the abandoned person is "no longer bound."

Divorce is only allowed for a limited number of grounds that are found in the Old Testament and affirmed in the New Testament:

• Adultery (in Deuteronomy 24:1, affirmed by Jesus in Matthew 19[13])

• Emotional and physical neglect (in Exodus 21:10-11[14], affirmed by Paul in 1 Corinthians 7[15])

• Abandonment and abuse (included in neglect, as affirmed in 1 Corinthians 7)

And yet. the OT passages were for the Jews under the law. Christians are under grace, not under law. 

And 1 Corinthians 7, those are Paul's commands to the church in Corinth. Corinth was a pagan city. Verse 17 , is Paul stating it is his rule. 

 

¹⁷ Nevertheless, each person should live as a believer in whatever situation the Lord has assigned to them, just as God has called them.This is the rule I lay down in all the churches.

 

How about this, a wife encountering an abusive spouse is being shown by God that that abusive spouse is not the one that God chose for them. Because God would not want a woman to suffer at the hands of her husband. A Godly marriage where both become as one is not a marriage where one is in fear of their life from the other. 

Such a one as that is as good as an unbeliever, because God's covenant for marriage does not include abuse. Scripture tells us we're not to yoke ourselves with unbelievers. What does righteousness and unrighteousness hold in common? Nothing. 

Return to a man a wife has left in fear of her life? That's man. Not God's will for her. God loves the Christian wife. I'm quite sure there isn't a single scripture wherein God says he'd like to meet that Christian wife after her abusive husband sends her to him early through the weapon of spousal abuse. 

[frienduff thaylorde]

4 hours ago, TickledPinkinChristWoot! said:

Where did Jesus teach about divorce and remarriage? Not Paul's letters, Jesus himself. 

In Mathew trice.    chapters five or six and then in nineteen.

then in mark chapter ten.   I think in luke also . 

[frienduff thaylorde]

3 hours ago, Heleadethme said:

As I said the church certainly has failed miserably at dealing with the sin of spousal abuse and other kinds of abuses as well, I completely agree sister and the reasons for it go all the way back to Adam........gross sins like stealing, adultery, violence etc......is supposed to be dealt with by the church.....in accordance with the example and principles given in the epistles.  The church is falling away as was prophesied and is as wicked as the world now........tragic but true.  This is why the Lord is calling His people to come out of her now.......she's about to be judged and even now is.  But as the Body of Christ we are to deal with abusers not in anger but in love and firm discipline for their sakes, same as any other sin, in hopes of their restoration, while also helping the victims of their abuse.  Most churches do not function as a Body, as a family (of God) and that's why they leave everything to the "professionals" who are mostly ineffective......whereas there is nothing in the bible about the Body of Christ being run by professionals.  No reason biblically why Godly men in the Body can't go talk to the abusive husband themselves, the way the bible says, if they have been taught at all, and Godly women comfort and encourage the wife.  The reality though, is that hardly anybody has read or understood or been taught what the bible teaches, from the professionals to the pastors to the people in the pews....the church is in a mess.  Funny how the bible is so simple and practical but at the same time we are blind to it unless we look with spiritual eyes.

I noticed something .     I wonder if anyone else notices this.    From all the research I have done on others throughout all times.

IT always was seen a remnant was their.  AND that they had tried to warn the main corpoprate CHURCH or churches, but after not hearing

THEY LEFT and had their own small communites.     GOD sure knows how to pull his own out and keep us in company with true believers and not under false prophets.

[TickledPinkinChristWoot!]

12 hours ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

In Mathew trice.    chapters five or six and then in nineteen.

then in mark chapter ten.   I think in luke also . 

Fair enough. 

[TickledPinkinChristWoot!]

On 12/31/2017 at 7:37 PM, bryan said:

Laws for divorce and marriage really belong in a separate discussion, but I'll add some notes here.  Let's try to keep the current discussion in this thread focused on the original questions.

 

Divorce for neglect included divorce for abuse, because this was extreme neglect. There was no question about that end of the spectrum of neglect, but what about the other end? What about abandonment, which was merely a kind of passive neglect? This was an uncertain matter, so Paul deals with it. He says to all believers that they may not abandon their partners, and if they have done so, they should return (1 Cor. 7:10-12). In the case of someone who is abandoned by an unbeliever—someone who won't obey the command to return—he says that the abandoned person is "no longer bound."

Divorce is only allowed for a limited number of grounds that are found in the Old Testament and affirmed in the New Testament:

• Adultery (in Deuteronomy 24:1, affirmed by Jesus in Matthew 19[13])

• Emotional and physical neglect (in Exodus 21:10-11[14], affirmed by Paul in 1 Corinthians 7[15])

• Abandonment and abuse (included in neglect, as affirmed in 1 Corinthians 7)

 

Awesome of you to post those passages here. I wanted to say that and make your post appear again in case someone misses it in the back pages of the thread. Thank you for that brother. God bless you. 

There was a woman I heard of who asked advice from a Christian woman concerning divorcing her physically abusive husband. He'd nearly killed the poor woman on multiple occasions with his violent temper. Amazing the police didn't step in. The advisor told the woman that the Bible says quite clearly that she cannot divorce. She must try to work it out. 

Then the advisor suggested counseling with a pastor or marriage counselor. 

To this day I wonder if that poor woman is alive. 

Again, thank you for this. It just may save a sisters life. 

[Heleadethme]

18 hours ago, TickledPinkinChristWoot! said:

 

Awesome of you to post those passages here. I wanted to say that and make your post appear again in case someone misses it in the back pages of the thread. Thank you for that brother. God bless you. 

There was a woman I heard of who asked advice from a Christian woman concerning divorcing her physically abusive husband. He'd nearly killed the poor woman on multiple occasions with his violent temper. Amazing the police didn't step in. The advisor told the woman that the Bible says quite clearly that she cannot divorce. She must try to work it out. 

Then the advisor suggested counseling with a pastor or marriage counselor. 

To this day I wonder if that poor woman is alive. 

Again, thank you for this. It just may save a sisters life. 

The Law permitted divorce only due to the hardness of their hearts, they were still carnal.  But Jesus says that what God has joined together let no man put asunder.  Under the new covenant the Lord only recognizes divorce and remarriage due to either adultery or an unbelieving spouse leaving.  For other situations there is the recourse of living apart from one's spouse, with a view to reconciliation, but not to remarry another.  Overall we are not here for a good time, but to be conformed to the image of Christ, and sometimes a difficult marriage is the cross that the Lord gives a person to bear for the perfecting of their faith and the church can extend support, comfort and encouragement when needed.

In cases of physical abuse....unfortunately the church has done a very bad job of dealing with abuse within marriage (and other abuses).....offending spouses need to be read the riot act by members of the church, in love of course, and the abused spouse (assuming she separates for a time) can be easily protected by the church simply by not being left alone in an unsecured environment where the abuser can get to her.  He's not likely to attack her in full view of others, in most cases.......those without self control can usually control themselves just fine when people are looking.  Just reiterating that church is supposed to be like a family.......one member of the family attacking another member of the family should not be allowed by all the other members, but dealt with like any other major sin in the church, according to how we are instructed in the apostles's letters, escalating as necessary.

[TickledPinkinChristWoot!]

Personally, I think any spouse being physically abused has every right to run for their life. God does not ordain such a connection and there's nowhere in scripture that says he wants to meet His son or daughter in Christ by their having been murdered by the spouse they thought they could not divorce because He would be upset with them. 

God see's all. Including spousal abuse.

[Heleadethme]

10 minutes ago, TickledPinkinChristWoot! said:

Personally, I think any spouse being physically abused has every right to run for their life. God does not ordain such a connection and there's nowhere in scripture that says he wants to meet His son or daughter in Christ by their having been murdered by the spouse they thought they could not divorce because He would be upset with them. 

God see's all. Including spousal abuse.

I am not sure why you keep on insisting divorce is the only way to be safe.............when separation is clearly an option.  God ordains marriage, both good and bad marriages.

[TickledPinkinChristWoot!]

3 minutes ago, Heleadethme said:

I am not sure why you keep on insisting divorce is the only way to be safe.............when separation is clearly an option.  God ordains marriage, both good and bad marriages.

No, God doesn't ordain bad marriages being He is omniscient and omni-benevolent. 

And perhaps you're not married. Or you don't realize that thinking someone has to stay married to someone they separated from because that someone was trying to beat them to death on a regular basis, means that survivor of their abuse has to never marry again in order to please God. 

There are plenty of Christians who are re-married and are blessed in that union. God forgives. God also does not tell us to remain yoked to unbelievers. In fact, he states the opposite. We shall not be. An unbeliever, someone who is not in Christ, is someone who abuses their spouse and ultimately that violent spouse has potential in their deviant violent behavior to violating the 6th commandment.  

Such a one as that isn't in Christ. Even if they call themselves Christian. Thinking they are is to say the Holy Spirit of God compels that sin of spousal abuse. And that is blasphemy.

You seem to think a woman, for example though men are also victims of spousal abuse, has to remain married to a husband who assaults her physically. Or if she leaves, has to remain separated and unmarried till she dies. You're wrong. That's legalism. And that's not the doctrine of the new covenant. God forgives. Even divorce.