What is predestination and is it biblical?

[Quasar93]

Romans 8:29-30 tells us, “For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.” Ephesians 1:5 and 11 declare, “He predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will…In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will.” Many people have a strong hostility to the doctrine of predestination. However, predestination is a biblical doctrine. The key is understanding what predestination means, biblically.

The words translated “predestined” in the Scriptures referenced above are from the Greek word proorizo, which carries the meaning of “determine beforehand,” “ordain,” “to decide upon ahead of time.” So, predestination is God determining certain things to occur ahead of time. What did God determine ahead of time? According to Romans 8:29-30, God predetermined that certain individuals would be conformed to the likeness of His Son, be called, justified, and glorified. Essentially, God predetermines that certain individuals will be saved. Numerous scriptures refer to believers in Christ being chosen (Matthew 24:22, 31; Mark 13:20, 27; Romans 8:33, 9:11, 11:5-7, 28; Ephesians 1:11; Colossians 3:12; 1 Thessalonians 1:4; 1 Timothy 5:21; 2 Timothy 2:10; Titus 1:1; 1 Peter 1:1-2, 2:9; 2 Peter 1:10). Predestination is the biblical doctrine that God in His sovereignty chooses certain individuals to be saved.

The most common objection to the doctrine of predestination is that it is unfair. Why would God choose certain individuals and not others? The important thing to remember is that no one deserves to be saved. We have all sinned (Romans 3:23), and are all worthy of eternal punishment (Romans 6:23). As a result, God would be perfectly just in allowing all of us to spend eternity in hell. However, God chooses to save some of us. He is not being unfair to those who are not chosen, because they are receiving what they deserve. God’s choosing to be gracious to some is not unfair to the others. No one deserves anything from God; therefore, no one can object if he does not receive anything from God. An illustration would be a man randomly handing out money to five people in a crowd of twenty. Would the fifteen people who did not receive money be upset? Probably so. Do they have a right to be upset? No, they do not. Why? Because the man did not owe anyone money. He simply decided to be gracious to some.

If God is choosing who is saved, doesn’t that undermine our free will to choose and believe in Christ? The Bible says that we have the choice—all who believe in Jesus Christ will be saved (John 3:16; Romans 10:9-10). The Bible never describes God rejecting anyone who believes in Him or turning away anyone who is seeking Him (Deuteronomy 4:29). Somehow, in the mystery of God, predestination works hand-in-hand with a person being drawn by God (John 6:44) and believing unto salvation (Romans 1:16). God predestines who will be saved, and we must choose Christ in order to be saved. Both facts are equally true. Romans 11:33 proclaims, “Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable his judgments, and his paths beyond tracing out!”

Recommended Resources: Evangelism and the Sovereignty of God by J.I. Packer and Logos Bible Software.

From: gotquestions.org


Quasar93

[BeyondET]

No it doesn't undermine free will, God stopped the sun in the sky all day so the events on the battle field would be determined, the men fighting were allowed free will to choose were to swing their sword. God knew the outcome of the battle but He still stopped the sun.

similar to life today, the power of God is so great he can pause in people's live's for them to make a choice, true he knows what the person will choose already but that doesn't mean God isn't going to allow them time to choose.

Edited January 11, 2018 by BeyondET

[missmuffet]

On 1/6/2018 at 8:20 PM, Quasar93 said:

Romans 8:29-30 tells us, “For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.” Ephesians 1:5 and 11 declare, “He predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will…In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will.” Many people have a strong hostility to the doctrine of predestination. However, predestination is a biblical doctrine. The key is understanding what predestination means, biblically.

The words translated “predestined” in the Scriptures referenced above are from the Greek word proorizo, which carries the meaning of “determine beforehand,” “ordain,” “to decide upon ahead of time.” So, predestination is God determining certain things to occur ahead of time. What did God determine ahead of time? According to Romans 8:29-30, God predetermined that certain individuals would be conformed to the likeness of His Son, be called, justified, and glorified. Essentially, God predetermines that certain individuals will be saved. Numerous scriptures refer to believers in Christ being chosen (Matthew 24:22, 31; Mark 13:20, 27; Romans 8:33, 9:11, 11:5-7, 28; Ephesians 1:11; Colossians 3:12; 1 Thessalonians 1:4; 1 Timothy 5:21; 2 Timothy 2:10; Titus 1:1; 1 Peter 1:1-2, 2:9; 2 Peter 1:10). Predestination is the biblical doctrine that God in His sovereignty chooses certain individuals to be saved.

The most common objection to the doctrine of predestination is that it is unfair. Why would God choose certain individuals and not others? The important thing to remember is that no one deserves to be saved. We have all sinned (Romans 3:23), and are all worthy of eternal punishment (Romans 6:23). As a result, God would be perfectly just in allowing all of us to spend eternity in hell. However, God chooses to save some of us. He is not being unfair to those who are not chosen, because they are receiving what they deserve. God’s choosing to be gracious to some is not unfair to the others. No one deserves anything from God; therefore, no one can object if he does not receive anything from God. An illustration would be a man randomly handing out money to five people in a crowd of twenty. Would the fifteen people who did not receive money be upset? Probably so. Do they have a right to be upset? No, they do not. Why? Because the man did not owe anyone money. He simply decided to be gracious to some.

If God is choosing who is saved, doesn’t that undermine our free will to choose and believe in Christ? The Bible says that we have the choice—all who believe in Jesus Christ will be saved (John 3:16; Romans 10:9-10). The Bible never describes God rejecting anyone who believes in Him or turning away anyone who is seeking Him (Deuteronomy 4:29). Somehow, in the mystery of God, predestination works hand-in-hand with a person being drawn by God (John 6:44) and believing unto salvation (Romans 1:16). God predestines who will be saved, and we must choose Christ in order to be saved. Both facts are equally true. Romans 11:33 proclaims, “Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable his judgments, and his paths beyond tracing out!”

Recommended Resources: Evangelism and the Sovereignty of God by J.I. Packer and Logos Bible Software.

From: gotquestions.org


Quasar93

Yes, all who believe in Christ will be saved. God never rejects  anyone who comes to a true born again belief in Him. God gives all humans free will to choose and believe in God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.

[Guest shiloh357]

On 1/6/2018 at 10:20 PM, Quasar93 said:

Romans 8:29-30 tells us, “For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.” Ephesians 1:5 and 11 declare, “He predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will…In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will.” Many people have a strong hostility to the doctrine of predestination. However, predestination is a biblical doctrine. The key is understanding what predestination means, biblically.

The words translated “predestined” in the Scriptures referenced above are from the Greek word proorizo, which carries the meaning of “determine beforehand,” “ordain,” “to decide upon ahead of time.” So, predestination is God determining certain things to occur ahead of time. What did God determine ahead of time? According to Romans 8:29-30, God predetermined that certain individuals would be conformed to the likeness of His Son, be called, justified, and glorified. Essentially, God predetermines that certain individuals will be saved. Numerous scriptures refer to believers in Christ being chosen (Matthew 24:22, 31; Mark 13:20, 27; Romans 8:33, 9:11, 11:5-7, 28; Ephesians 1:11; Colossians 3:12; 1 Thessalonians 1:4; 1 Timothy 5:21; 2 Timothy 2:10; Titus 1:1; 1 Peter 1:1-2, 2:9; 2 Peter 1:10). Predestination is the biblical doctrine that God in His sovereignty chooses certain individuals to be saved.

Rom 8:28-29 isn't saying that God predestined some people to be saved.  “For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those he predestined..."

Those verses tell us that God knows ahead of time who will and will not be saved.  He "foreknows"  who is going to be saved.  And those that he foreknows, he predestines to be conformed into the image of his son.   It does NOT say that He predestines who will be saved.  Rather, it speaks of what He has predestined for those who will be saved.   He predestines them to be conformed into the image of His Son.

Quote

Numerous scriptures refer to believers in Christ being chosen (Matthew 24:22, 31; Mark 13:20, 27; Romans 8:33, 9:11, 11:5-7, 28; Ephesians 1:11; Colossians 3:12; 1 Thessalonians 1:4; 1 Timothy 5:21; 2 Timothy 2:10; Titus 1:1; 1 Peter 1:1-2, 2:9; 2 Peter 1:10).

None of those passages speak to being chosen to be saved.
 

Quote

 

The most common objection to the doctrine of predestination is that it is unfair.

 

That is not the most common objection.   God didn't have to provide salvation; if He didn't, it would be fair.  If He let mankind simply go into eternal Hell, that would have been fair and just.

The most common objection is that it is simply not taught in the Bible that God chooses who will or will not be saved.   The proof-texts that Calvinists offer up simply don't claim what they are assigning to those passages.

Quote

If God is choosing who is saved, doesn’t that undermine our free will to choose and believe in Christ? The Bible says that we have the choice—all who believe in Jesus Christ will be saved (John 3:16; Romans 10:9-10).

Actually, that really kind of contradicts what Calvinism teaches.   Calvinism teaches that all men are totally depraved.  They cannot hear the voice of God until God "regenerates" them.   God only regenerates those He has chosen, according to Calvinist teachings, and those who are regenerated will  respond  to the call of the irresistible grace of God.  Meaning that they don't have a choice, at all.    Those who are not regenerated have no choice, at all.  They will go to Hell.

That teaching is nowhere in Scripture, but it is treated as if it orthodox, Evangelical teaching and it is not.

[Dennis1209]

Yeah, what he said ^

[Reformed Baptist]

On 1/11/2018 at 11:38 PM, missmuffet said:

Yes, all who believe in Christ will be saved. God never rejects  anyone who comes to a true born again belief in Him. God gives all humans free will to choose and believe in God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.

Can you support your assertion that, "God gives all humans free will to choose and believe in God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit." from scripture? 

I see clear evidence that naturally speaking I am 'dead' in sin (Eph 2:1) and a 'slave' to sin (Rom 6:20) - neither of those images suggest that I have the freedom to choose anything - one tells me I am without any power to choose the other tells me I am bound to the master of sin - can you point me to a text that tells me I have free will to choose for myself without there first being a specific and divine work of God's grace in my life? (And before you appeal to John 3:16 please bear in mind that verse simply says that those who believe will be saved, it does not speak of the origin of that saving faith!)

Having done that, how do you reconcile those texts with text that says things like this: 

John 6:44 "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day."

Isn't that a text that clearly says that all those who choose to come to Jesus are only able to come because he is drawing them to him?

[ytLiJC]

On 1/7/2018 at 6:20 AM, Quasar93 said:

Romans 8:29-30 tells us, “For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.” Ephesians 1:5 and 11 declare, “He predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will…In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will.” Many people have a strong hostility to the doctrine of predestination. However, predestination is a biblical doctrine. The key is understanding what predestination means, biblically.

The words translated “predestined” in the Scriptures referenced above are from the Greek word proorizo, which carries the meaning of “determine beforehand,” “ordain,” “to decide upon ahead of time.” So, predestination is God determining certain things to occur ahead of time. What did God determine ahead of time? According to Romans 8:29-30, God predetermined that certain individuals would be conformed to the likeness of His Son, be called, justified, and glorified. Essentially, God predetermines that certain individuals will be saved. Numerous scriptures refer to believers in Christ being chosen (Matthew 24:22, 31; Mark 13:20, 27; Romans 8:33, 9:11, 11:5-7, 28; Ephesians 1:11; Colossians 3:12; 1 Thessalonians 1:4; 1 Timothy 5:21; 2 Timothy 2:10; Titus 1:1; 1 Peter 1:1-2, 2:9; 2 Peter 1:10). Predestination is the biblical doctrine that God in His sovereignty chooses certain individuals to be saved.

The most common objection to the doctrine of predestination is that it is unfair. Why would God choose certain individuals and not others? The important thing to remember is that no one deserves to be saved. We have all sinned (Romans 3:23), and are all worthy of eternal punishment (Romans 6:23). As a result, God would be perfectly just in allowing all of us to spend eternity in hell. However, God chooses to save some of us. He is not being unfair to those who are not chosen, because they are receiving what they deserve. God’s choosing to be gracious to some is not unfair to the others. No one deserves anything from God; therefore, no one can object if he does not receive anything from God. An illustration would be a man randomly handing out money to five people in a crowd of twenty. Would the fifteen people who did not receive money be upset? Probably so. Do they have a right to be upset? No, they do not. Why? Because the man did not owe anyone money. He simply decided to be gracious to some.

If God is choosing who is saved, doesn’t that undermine our free will to choose and believe in Christ? The Bible says that we have the choice—all who believe in Jesus Christ will be saved (John 3:16; Romans 10:9-10). The Bible never describes God rejecting anyone who believes in Him or turning away anyone who is seeking Him (Deuteronomy 4:29). Somehow, in the mystery of God, predestination works hand-in-hand with a person being drawn by God (John 6:44) and believing unto salvation (Romans 1:16). God predestines who will be saved, and we must choose Christ in order to be saved. Both facts are equally true. Romans 11:33 proclaims, “Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable his judgments, and his paths beyond tracing out!”

Recommended Resources: Evangelism and the Sovereignty of God by J.I. Packer and Logos Bible Software.

From: gotquestions.org


Quasar93

 

will/volition and predestination/destiny are combined into one (action) - for example, some people have been healed of a deadly disease (which cannot be cured without treatment), others have not been healed of the same disease, and we can say it seems there has been a predestination, but if the doctors who healed the ones that have been healed of that disease hadn't worked hard to heal them, would they have been healed?! - how have there been doctors/surgeons to be known as the only ones who not only agreed to treat/operate patients with but also managed to resolve worst health problems very successfully?! - remember that some disciples of Jesus didn't manage to cast out an evil spirit from one person, but Jesus evicted it, though the demon also resisted His attempts to expel it and at first it seemed as if He wouldn't manage to cast it out

there is so much evidence to prove that, in comparison with frailty/laxity, strong will overcomes evil, which is the reason why Jesus said "Is it not written in your law, I said, You are gods?"(John 10:34)

Blessings

Edited February 9, 2018 by ytLiJC

[simplejeff]

9 minutes ago, ytLiJC said:

remember that some disciples of Jesus didn't manage to cast out an evil spirit from one person, but Jesus evicted it, though the demon also resisted His attempts to expel it and at first it seemed as if He wouldn't manage to cast it out

Where do you read or hear this stuff ?  (as if anything was difficult for God or for Jesus to DO ? )  

[simplejeff]

11 minutes ago, ytLiJC said:

how have there been doctors/surgeons to be known as the only ones who not only agreed to heal/operate patients with but also managed to resolve worst health problems very successfully?!

This is life - like any trade or occupation of men.   In a human way,  some are more skillful and/or more knowledgeable and with more experiential knowledge than others.  Thus, 'naturally', they are more often 'more successful' you might say.  

[ytLiJC]

17 minutes ago, simplejeff said:

Where do you read or hear this stuff ?  (as if anything was difficult for God or for Jesus to DO ? )  

 

who said there is something difficult or impossible for God and Jesus?!

at first it might seem that there was something difficult or impossible for Them, but They always managed to save all people who could be saved

Mark 9:14-27 (AKJV) "And when he came to his disciples, he saw a great multitude about them, and the scribes questioning with them. And straightway all the people, when they beheld him, were greatly amazed, and running to him saluted him. And he asked the scribes, What question you with them? And one of the multitude answered and said, Master, I have brought to you my son, which has a dumb spirit; And wherever he takes him, he tears him: and he foams, and gnashes with his teeth, and pines away: and I spoke to your disciples that they should cast him out; and they could not. He answers him, and said, O faithless generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him to me. And they brought him to him: and when he saw him, straightway the spirit tare him; and he fell on the ground, and wallowed foaming. And he asked his father, How long is it ago since this came to him? And he said, Of a child. And often it has cast him into the fire, and into the waters, to destroy him: but if you can do any thing, have compassion on us, and help us. Jesus said to him, If you can believe, all things are possible to him that believes. And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help you my unbelief. When Jesus saw that the people came running together, he rebuked the foul spirit, saying to him, You dumb and deaf spirit, I charge you, come out of him, and enter no more into him. And the spirit cried, and rent him sore, and came out of him: and he was as one dead; so that many said, He is dead. But Jesus took him by the hand, and lifted him up; and he arose."

Blessings

Edited February 9, 2018 by ytLiJC