Catholic Idolatry

[KiwiChristian]

Definition of "worship" : Ardent devotion; adoration.

Every Catholic institution has images of Mary, Jesus and male and female figures. An example of this are two statues at the French Papal Palace of Avignon, one of Jesus about 20 metres above ground level, and the other is an enormous statue of Mary, much larger, grander and higher up than that of Jesus. This gives the greater honour to Mary than Jesus. It also clearly breaks the second Commandment forbidding making images of things in heaven.

Job15:15 "Behold, he putteth no trust in his saints; yea, the heavens are not clean in his sight."

Cardinal Newman, in his book, "The Development of the Christian Religion," admits that ... "Temples, incense, oil lamps, votive offerings, holy water, holidays and season of devotions, processions, blessing of fields, sacerdotal vestments, the tonsure (of priests and monks and nuns), images ... are ALL of pagan origin..." (Page 359).
 

 “Through some crack or other in the temple of God, the smoke of Satan has entered .” — Pope Paul VI, 1972

The Catechism of the Council of Trent states these words: "It is lawful to have images in the Church, and to give honor and worship unto them...".

The twenty-fifth session of the Council of Trent decrees that the images of Christ and the Virgin Mary, and of the other saints, are especially to be had and retained in the churches, and that honor and veneration are to be paid to them.

"Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them..." —Exodus 20:5. Ok, so then why do so many catholics and the pope  BOW DOWN before a statue of Mary in their worship places?

Exodus 20:4,5 couldn't be any clearer that even BOWING down to a statue is idolatry.  Yet, Catholics foolishly claim that they are not worshipping the statues they are bowing down to.  BUT, God forbids us from even bowing to statues.  In fact, the Bible is so clear on this matter that the Vatican has even REMOVED the second of the Ten Commandments to deceive you.  

Exodus20:4-5. "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth."  Vs5 "Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God." Isaiah 42:8 "I [am] the LORD: that [is] my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images."

God DID specifically commanded CERTAIN statues to be made. Were they worshipped? No, were they bowed down to? No. Were the cerebrum on the ark of the covenant bowed down to or worshipped? No. Moses' brass snake was to demonstrate Gods healing power, so the people would know that their healing was from God and not just a coincidence, as you well know. Show me where God SPECIFICALLY commands us to make images of Mary and the pope and to bow to them?

The Pope deleted the 2nd of the 10 commandments so they could use statues & images in worship. They split the 10th commandment on coveting into two commandments so they could still have 10 in  number. Look at the list of 10 commandments published by the rcc! The issue here is not how the Ten Commandments are numbered, rather the issue is that most published lists of the 10 commandments do not include the words, "you shall not for yourself an idol".

[brakelite]

All the statues, dogmas, doctrines and traditions of Rome are the symptoms of a far greater disease within that communion. They are fruits of the nature of the beast. Look up the word 'anti' (christ) in Strongs concordance. #473. Everything the Vatican does is in the room of, or instead of Christ. It's sanctuary replaces the heavenly sanctuary...the priesthood replaces Christ's ministry in heaven...the priest himself (as also does the saints, Mary, Joseph etc) replaces the mediatorial role of Christ...the sacraments replace grace...the popes (or magisterium)word replaces scripture...images replace the real...traditions replace truth...the confessional and penance replaces Christ as Redeemer and His sole prerogative to forgive sin...her invention of Sunday replaced the Sabbath...her version of the ten commandments replaced the true..the list is endless. The entire facade is Antichrist, in the true meaning of that word. 

."..and it cast the truth to the ground; and it practiced, and prospered." Daniel 8:12

[Wayne222]

17 minutes ago, brakelite said:

All the statues, dogmas, doctrines and traditions of Rome are the symptoms of a far greater disease within that communion. They are fruits of the nature of the beast. Look up the word 'anti' (christ) in Strongs concordance. #473. Everything the Vatican does is in the room of, or instead of Christ. It's sanctuary replaces the heavenly sanctuary...the priesthood replaces Christ's ministry in heaven...the priest himself (as also does the saints, Mary, Joseph etc) replaces the mediatorial role of Christ...the sacraments replace grace...the popes (or magisterium)word replaces scripture...images replace the real...traditions replace truth...the confessional and penance replaces Christ as Redeemer and His sole prerogative to forgive sin...her invention of Sunday replaced the Sabbath...her version of the ten commandments replaced the true..the list is endless. The entire facade is Antichrist, in the true meaning of that word. 

."..and it cast the truth to the ground; and it practiced, and prospered." Daniel 8:12

       There are true Christians in the Catholic church. I know a lot of what they do is not biblical. But the SDA Is not biblical as well. When the true Antichrist appears he will not be a pope but a Muslim more then likely.

[brakelite]

7 minutes ago, Cobalt1959 said:

  Your denomination follows the same works-based salvation system as the Catholic church.  

"If the heart has been renewed by the Spirit of God, the life will bear witness to the fact. While we cannot do anything to change our hearts or to bring ourselves into harmony with God; while we must not trust at all to ourselves or our good works, our lives will reveal whether the grace of God is dwelling within us"....."there are two errors against which the children of God-particularly those who have just come to trust in His grace-especially need to guard. The first, already dwelt upon, is that of looking to their own works, trusting to anything they can do, to bring themselves into harmony with God. He who is trying to become holy by his own works in keeping the law, is attempting an impossibility. All that man can do without Christ is polluted with selfishness and sin.  It is the grace of Christ alone, through faith, that can make us holy." E White 'Steps to Christ'.

Read the church's fundamental beliefs on justification and sanctification. Do yourself a favour and lose the bigotry.

23 minutes ago, Cobalt1959 said:

You also cannot condemn the Catholic church as long as you are attending a church that supports abortion.

My tithe does not go to a church that supports abortion. You pay taxes to a government that supports abortion. What's your excuse? And BTW, I am fully entitled to expose the lies and deceit of a system that leads millions to idolatry...that has murdered millions for their faith...and plans to involve millions more, including yourself, in its soon coming global ecumenical enterprise. So long as you believe in her doctrines and refuse to come out of her; so long as you seek to bind others in her deceit by refusing me to expose their lies, then you support murder, heresy, and deception. 

[brakelite]

33 minutes ago, Wayne222 said:

       There are true Christians in the Catholic church. I know a lot of what they do is not biblical. But the SDA Is not biblical as well. When the true Antichrist appears he will not be a pope but a Muslim more then likely.

I agree there are Christians in the Catholic church. I will be happy to discuss SDA doctrine with you on another thread so long as everyone keeps it civil. I also agree that the pope, as an individual, is not the Antichrist. It is the system that is the Antichrist. It is the system, the papacy itself, which answers to every single criteria demanded of the man of sin/beast/little horn/antichrist. With no exceptions. Looking to the future for someone else is in fact a 17th century deception perpetrated by Jesuits to divert the accusations of the reformers. 

[brakelite]

2 minutes ago, Yowm said:

Am I mistaken, but didn’t Ellen G. White look to the future for her Church with her many prophecies?

There are 3 methods of interpreting prophecy. Preterism, Futurism, and Historicism.Adventists are historicists. That is, they consider prophecy a continuing unravelling of the vision or prophecy from the time it was given, unless clearly indicated otherwise. Take the subject of the antichrist as a prime example. Daniel was given several visions starting from the statue, then in Daniel 7 the 4 beasts, and the horns that grew from them, then in Daniel 8 the two beasts, Daniel 9 gives us a remarkably accurate Messianic prophecy giving us valuable clues to the time periods involved, then in 11 a documented picture of the entire period from his time to the second coming. Each prophecy covered  pretty much the same time period. From Babylon to the Kingdom of God. Starting from the skeleton of the prophetic picture in Daniel 2, the subsequent [prophecies fill in the details. Adventists do not find any evidence nor reason to take a portion of them and place them into a future time spot oi ts own with a gap of a couple of thousand years in between. We believe that as we study history, we find the fulfilment of prophecy, and can with reasonable confidence discern what is yet to come, as history does repeat, and there is nothing new under the sun.

From the historicist perspective, there is no gap of 2000 years where God failed to document the reign of the papacy. Futurism and preterism, both invented by Jesuits, hide the true Antichrist within that 2000 years period, deceiving the entire Christian world. It wasn't Ellen White who first taught the historicist hermeneutic. The reformers were historicists, as were the early church fathers, such as Justin Martyr, Cyril of Jerusalem, Jerome, and others.

[simplejeff]

8 hours ago, Yowm said:

Am I mistaken, but didn’t Ellen G. White look to the future for her Church with her many prophecies?

< shrugs > don't know, 

Did not Jesus , the Apostles, and the Ekklesia in the New Testament all "look to the future" with many prophesies from OT and NT ,  for Israel and for the gentile ekklesia , didn't they all have great hope and trust in the future with YHVH(God), even eternally  ?

[simplejeff]

14 hours ago, brakelite said:

"If the heart has been renewed by the Spirit of God,

the life will bear witness to the fact.

While we cannot do anything to change our hearts or to bring ourselves into harmony with God;

while we must not trust at all to ourselves or our good works, our lives will reveal whether the grace of God is dwelling within us".....

"there are two errors against which the children of God-particularly those who have just come to trust in His grace-especially need to guard.

The first, already dwelt upon, is that of looking to their own works, trusting to anything they can do, to bring themselves into harmony with God. He who is trying to become holy by his own works in keeping the law, is attempting an impossibility. All that man can do without Christ is polluted with selfishness and sin.  It is the grace of Christ alone, through faith, that can make us holy." E White 'Steps to Christ'.

It seems all that is in this quote is also found in worthychristianforums.com by several other men (and a woman) of YHVH in sermons or lessons there for training in Godliness and leading holy lives in Christ Jesus, Biblically.

[simplejeff]

4 minutes ago, Yowm said:

<shrugs also> you should know, the difference between hers and the Apostles and Prophets in the Bible is that hers were false like this one..

..the Apostles did not have ONE false prophecy like this one for example...

That's basically true, yes.   But there are other tv/ media/ evangelists currently that several or many posters have admitted to following who likewise have serious errors in their teachings.   Test everything. 

I'm not saying to accept White , no - but test if someone brings up a statement or a prophecy specifically,  test that statement or prophecy per Scripture,  and never accept what is wrong in a teaching or a prophecy or other word.

We are not to follow preachers nor teachers not prophets today ,  when they are not faithful ,  nor accept their teachings or their lives without testing,

as Jesus also warned all the disciples "Listen when TORAH/Scripture is read/taught; but do not live like they live....."  "Beware the leaven (hypocrisy) of the religious teachers..."   is perfectly true today as it was always. 

A few other false teachings have been promoted recently,  but a full on warning of the overall error may not be or perhaps isn't necessarily effective nor revealing nor life-changing (but may still be required and good as a warning/danger flag so people are aware to start with and don't proceed far down a wrong and evil path )  ,   so

taking the false teaching step by step ,  precept by precept,  starting at the beginning of it,  proving what is right,  then when something wrong comes up proving what is wrong according to Scripture.   i.e. find out and test the basic tenets of some known false belief or false prophet/teacher,  and show the difference , always by Scripture,  of what is right and what is wrong.

In every false teaching there is often or usually a mixture of truth with lies or deceptions,  and seeing how to test various components may be helpful. 

(not at all required to even study or give any ground to any false ministry,  but the proving of it if YHVH directs this way)

"Accept what is true...."  ,  confirmed/ proven by testing ....

[brakelite]

7 hours ago, Yowm said:

I am aware of the different approaches to prophecy but false predictions are not one of them.

http://1timothy4-13.com/files/bible/sda_morefailed.html

"For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be CAUGHT UP TOGETHER WITH THEM in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."
1 Thess. 4:15-17 (emphasis supplied)

Does the above make Paul a false prophet because he declared he would be alive when Jesus returns?