Who are God's "Elect" Mentioned in Matthew 24?

[OldCoot]

On 2/18/2018 at 8:20 PM, ENOCH2010 said:

What are the pre-trib crowed so afraid of, dying for Christ should be considered a privilege. 

Who says they are afraid of anything?   Many who hold a pre-trib view are killed today for their faith and the tribulation hasn't even started yet.  

My counter to your assertion is, why do those who do not hold to a pre-trib position even scrap over the issue and exert so much energy fighting against it?   It is not a condition of salvation, one way or the other.     I hold a pre-trib view, but I am not really losing any sleep that others don't take the same view.  That is not the issue.  Our relationship with the Messiah is the issue.    Stuff like this is just fun to throw around and get different opinions about.  

We all will know the true answers about this stuff soon enough. Of that I am more convinced each day.

On 2/18/2018 at 8:33 PM, Unfailing Presence said:

I find The post - trib  obsession with the " privilege" of  death and dying  in certain specific ways to be very disturbing obsession and not unlike that which has led to many horrific cult events in recent years .

And I would have to agree with this somewhat.  

[Unfailing Presence]

35 minutes ago, OldCoot said:

On ‎2‎/‎18‎/‎2018 at 9:33 PM, Unfailing Presence said:

I find The post - trib  obsession with the " privilege" of  death and dying  in certain specific ways to be very disturbing obsession and not unlike that which has led to many horrific cult events in recent years .

And I would have to agree with this somewhat.  

That is where is starts OldCoot .

Once you declare what is , and what is not  a great purpose to die for you naturally want other people to die for that purpose as well . 

[Daniel 11:36]

Those who discourage the pre-tribuation removal of the Christians are heading for the tribulation period [Revelation 3:15-19]

Read your Bible and turn to the Lord before it is too late

Edited March 23, 2018 by Daniel 11:36

[OldCoot]

I wouldn't go that far.  Those that don't hold to a pre-trib scenario and rapture, that's ok... we will explain it to them on the way up!   

Like I stated, it is not a condition of salvation regarding eschatology.  Salvation is based on relationship with the Messiah.  Those that place eschatological things on the level or saved or not, risk bordering on legalism.  And Yeshua had definite words about legalism.   We all probably have a lot of aspects wrong on eschatology, and I am more than certain the majority of believers will have egg on their face regarding what they think is going to happen compared to what actually does.

Folks need to discuss these things, share insights, and even make their case.  But it should always be in respect for each other that we do it.   We all have to get along in the Messianic Kingdom, it might be wise that we get a head start on getting along now.  It seems out of character with what Yeshua taught us to pick at each other like a pack of dogs on such issues. 

 

 

[Daniel 11:36]

"I wouldn't go that far.  Those that don't hold to a pre-trib scenario and rapture, that's ok... we will explain it to them on the way up!"

 

How far would you go? 

[OldCoot]

I gather that the subliminal humor in that latter part of that statement I made got lost on you.  As well as the clarity of a pre-trib position.  Those that do not hold to it will still be gathered just as those who do hold to a pre-trib position.  Those that discourage the pre-trib position are not headed into the great tribulation if that position is true.  All those who trust in Messiah will be gathered unto Him at the same time.

Why would anyone need to go to any kind of extreme to explain a pre-trib position to anyone?   Make the case, discuss it, debate it, etc.  Pre-trib, post-trib, mid-trib, pre-wrath, whatever area not conditions of salvation.   They are theological assertions based on individual interpretations of scripture on future events that we have no definitive knowledge of.  Where one steps into dangerous territory is condemnation of anyone who disagrees with a particular view.  Several friends of mine in the congregation I attend do not hold to a pre-trib position as I do.  Yet, we remain friends and celebrate our kinship in the Lord.  We all acknowledge that we are not privy to all the details of the end times events. That is the exclusive of the Lord Himself.

There are indeed theological concepts that are essential to the faith, and there can be no wavering on, like who Messiah is, how salvation is obtained, etc.  But future events are not in that same category.  We are expected to study these things and seek illumination from the Holy spirit, as Yeshua seemed to deem them worthy of study by mentioning them as did the Apostles.

And we are admonished to expect persecution and even death just because we belong to Yeshua.  The time period is irrelevant.  If the Pre-Trib position is an error, nothing really changes.  Are those believers being persecuted and killed in various parts of the world today any less worse off than going into the the Great Tribulation?  I think not.  Being tortured, crucified, skinned alive, burned alive, beheaded, and killed for the faith is the same either way.   But I would counter, that we are to be in earnest expectation of our gathering to Him.  That is made clear throughout scripture as expounded by the Apostles.  So the Pre-Trib position is more closely related to that expectation than any other.   It is not some sort of "escapism" as is asserted by some.  It is primarily a hope in a soon gathering to be with the Messiah that saved us.  

Just and the Apostle John stated... Come quickly Lord Jesus!

 

 

[Daniel 11:36]

Come quickly Lord Jesus!