1.The Rapture Theory

[Montana Marv]

19 hours ago, ScottA said:

To properly understand that statement, one must understand what is meant by "like" manner.

It is assumed that because it was viewed by some living in the world, that it means He will return in the flesh and in view of the world. But He Himself said, "the world sees me no more." So, that kind of thinking is completely wrong. 

No, one must understand what was being witnessed. He had committed [only] His spirit to the Father and not His flesh...and that was His spirit and not His flesh, going to the Father that was witnessed. So, the "like" manner that the statement refers to, was "in spirit", just as "God is spirit." Therefore, He returns "in spirit"...and thus, the world sees Him "no more."

Hogwash, decomposing flesh.

Rev 5:5, 6a - ... See, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has triumphed. He is able to open the scroll and its seven seals.  Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain, standing in the center of the throne.....

You must answer a question for yourself.  How can a Spirit look as though it had been slain.  How can a Spirit come from the tribe of Judah and be from the root of David.

Jesus Christ went up into heaven, Bodily,  and in like manner He will return, Bodily.    Zech 14:4 - On that day, his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two...  Where did Jesus ascend from;  The Mount of Olives.

Ezk 43:7 - He said; Son of Man, this is the place of my throne and the place for the soles of my feet.  This is where I will live among the Israelites forever.  v. 4. The glory of the Lord entered the temple through the gate facing East.

Scott, is it your belief that Jesus did not rise from the dead.  If Christ's Spirit was what went into Heaven,  Where then is His Body.

Zech 14:6 - Then the survivors from all the nations that have attacked Jerusalem will go up year after year to worship the King, the Lord Almighty..

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

[Daniel 11:36]

ScottA is a hyper preterist Marv .... you will never convince him of anything different

Hyper preterism believes that the Lord has already come and there is nothing left to know

Those who believe this nonsense are in for a wild ride

[ScottA]

3 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

Jesus Christ went up into heaven, Bodily,  and in like manner He will return, Bodily.    Zech 14:4 - On that day, his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two...  Where did Jesus ascend from;  The Mount of Olives.

Ezk 43:7 - He said; Son of Man, this is the place of my throne and the place for the soles of my feet.  This is where I will live among the Israelites forever.  v. 4. The glory of the Lord entered the temple through the gate facing East.

I explained that He did not enter the kingdom in the flesh, but in the spirit, just as God is spirit. This is not debatable. 

But, you have this all wrong as well. The flesh dies. But "God is the god of the living." Christ is that "life-giving spirit." "The flesh profits nothing."

As for the Mount of Olives...Yes, indeed - but you have the timing all wrong. That was His swan song, His victory march! He has entered into the glory of the Father, whom is spirit.

[ScottA]

3 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

Scott, is it your belief that Jesus did not rise from the dead.  If Christ's Spirit was what went into Heaven,  Where then is His Body.

Zech 14:6 - Then the survivors from all the nations that have attacked Jerusalem will go up year after year to worship the King, the Lord Almighty..

Of course Jesus rose from the death - He also ascended into heaven. Yes, He did both. But they were two different acts. The resurrection was His victory over death, even in the flesh. But even the dead are raised up in the resurrection: "some to everlasting life, some to shame and everlasting contempt." But all do not enter the kingdom, certainly "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God."

"Where is His body" you ask? - We, who have received Him in [spirit] are His body - His church! Did His church rise with His spirit on the day of Pentecost? 

And since then, "each in his own order" when we too have breathed our last, "go up year after year to worship the King, the Lord Almighty", as we shall do "forevermore."

[Adstar]

19 hours ago, ScottA said:

Do not be sad for me, but for yourselves and your children.

As I said, "we cannot have this argument." You cannot declare truth using scripture against scripture, those things which I have quoted. I do not have any argument against the scriptures that you have quoted and they are all in accord with what I have quoted. But you have a problem with me giving you the whole truth and therefore use scripture against scripture as if God were against Himself. He is not. But you will argue that you too do not disagree with what I have quoted, but rather what I have said of it, so since I have told you that what I have said agrees with the scriptures you have quoted, I will ask you:

How do your reconcile what you have said and claim will happen in the world, with the biblical fact that "the world sees Me no more", said by Jesus?

I could answer it in two ways..

One way is the World population as it existed at the time Jesus said it would not see Jesus anymore....  Jesus did not return and no one that existed on earth on the day Jesus said that saw Him again..

The second way is that Jesus upon being resurrected was transformed into His glorious eternal state which John and recounted in The book of Revealtion.. Now Jesus as He was seen by the apostles and the world population during His time on earth was in a different human flesh form.. As so the world would not see Jesus ( as He was at the time of speaking) anymore. Because He was transformed into His glorious appearance..  

 

See your belief hangs on a few words in scripture while you have discounted the many scriptures i have given.. Jesus said the whole world would see Him upon the day of His return.. This following verses completely blows your "" Jesus will never be seen again belief out the window""

Revelation 1: KJV

{7} Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. {8} I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty."

Shall is future tense here and this scripture was revealed After Jesus has ascended into heaven..  So if your belief was correct and Jesus would never be seen again then you will have to declare this scripture to be false.. Because clearly it reveals that all Kindred's of the earth see him again..

 

It astounds me that a Christian would hold the position you hold...   It amazes me that i even have to try and show through scripture the reality of the second physical coming of the LORD Jesus Christ....  But i guess in these end times i sould not be surprised at all..

 

 

 

[Montana Marv]

10 hours ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

ScottA is a hyper preterist Marv .... you will never convince him of anything different

Hyper preterism believes that the Lord has already come and there is nothing left to know

Those who believe this nonsense are in for a wild ride

That is why I view what he says as hogwash and decomposing flesh.  Nothing of merit.

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

[Montana Marv]

8 hours ago, ScottA said:

Which is greater, God or man?

Which is greater, spirit or flesh?

What is God, spirit or flesh?

And who is Jesus.  Born in a manger, circumcised on the 8th day, Baptized by John the Baptist.  Hung on a cross and died bodily.

Col 1:15 - He is the image of the invisible God.  v. 18 - He is the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.  v.22 - But now he (God) has reconciled you (us) by Christs physical body through his death to present you holy in his sight without blemish...

John 20:27 - Put your finger here, see my hands, Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.  v. 28 - Then Thomas said. "My Lord and my God"

So we are reconciled to God by his physical body, not his spirit.  The Two (flesh and spirit) are one.  Jesus Christ's body is the exact image of the invisible God.  Col 2:9 - For in Christ all the fullness of Deity lives in bodily form.  It does not say in Spiritual form, but bodily form.

So as you say, we are Christ's Body, the Church.  Then does all the fullness of Deity live in us (the Church, Christ's body)?

In Christ

Montana Marv

[ScottA]

3 hours ago, Adstar said:

I could answer it in two ways..

One way is the World population as it existed at the time Jesus said it would not see Jesus anymore....  Jesus did not return and no one that existed on earth on the day Jesus said that saw Him again..

The second way is that Jesus upon being resurrected was transformed into His glorious eternal state which John and recounted in The book of Revealtion.. Now Jesus as He was seen by the apostles and the world population during His time on earth was in a different human flesh form.. As so the world would not see Jesus ( as He was at the time of speaking) anymore. Because He was transformed into His glorious appearance..  

See your belief hangs on a few words in scripture while you have discounted the many scriptures i have given.. Jesus said the whole world would see Him upon the day of His return.. This following verses completely blows your "" Jesus will never be seen again belief out the window""

Revelation 1: KJV

{7} Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. {8} I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty."

Shall is future tense here and this scripture was revealed After Jesus has ascended into heaven..  So if your belief was correct and Jesus would never be seen again then you will have to declare this scripture to be false.. Because clearly it reveals that all Kindred's of the earth see him again..

It astounds me that a Christian would hold the position you hold...   It amazes me that i even have to try and show through scripture the reality of the second physical coming of the LORD Jesus Christ....  But i guess in these end times i sould not be surprised at all..

I reveal all truth to you and you do not receive it. Then to make it simple for you, and show you one thing in the form of a question that cannot be denied, so that you might receive it as from yourself. Still you do not receive it and say that it is not enough. But your response is quite enough.

In answering that very simple question which cannot be denied ("How do you reconcile what you have said and claim will happen in the world, with the biblical fact that "the world sees Me no more", said by Jesus?") your only answer is complete conjecture, showing that you do not know at all, but are more willing to speculate than to hear and believe the truth. That, indeed, is quite enough.

And again, you use one scripture from God to argue against another scripture from God, proving that you have no understanding. It would have been better for you if you had told the truth and said you don't know.

[simplejeff]

2 minutes ago, ScottA said:

I reveal all truth to you and you do not receive it.

Epic fail.  (Already proven false)

[ScottA]

1 hour ago, Montana Marv said:

And who is Jesus.  Born in a manger, circumcised on the 8th day, Baptized by John the Baptist.  Hung on a cross and died bodily.

Col 1:15 - He is the image of the invisible God.  v. 18 - He is the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.  v.22 - But now he (God) has reconciled you (us) by Christs physical body through his death to present you holy in his sight without blemish...

John 20:27 - Put your finger here, see my hands, Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.  v. 28 - Then Thomas said. "My Lord and my God"

So we are reconciled to God by his physical body, not his spirit.  The Two (flesh and spirit) are one.  Jesus Christ's body is the exact image of the invisible God.  Col 2:9 - For in Christ all the fullness of Deity lives in bodily form.  It does not say in Spiritual form, but bodily form.

So as you say, we are Christ's Body, the Church.  Then does all the fullness of Deity live in us (the Church, Christ's body)?

In Christ

Montana Marv

No. You should have read the whole passage, for you have done exactly what it says not to do:

⁸ Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ. ⁹ For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; ¹⁰ and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power.

...Instead of answering my simple questions honestly, that should have shown you that God who is spirit is greater than the flesh that "cannot inherit the kingdom of God" - you continue to believe in the glory of the flesh. And this you do, "not according to Christ" (whom is God, whom is spirit), but "according to the basic principles of the world", just as we are warned not to.