Jesus Is God

[Guest shiloh357]

1 minute ago, DJ7 said:

So if Jesus was fully God why then did he grow in favour with God and man if He was God?

That is talking about Jesus' humanity.  As a boy and as he grew, he grew in favor with God and man.  Jesus developed from a boy into a man, being fully human.

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Who spoke from heaven if Jesus was fully God?

God the Father.   Jesus is God the Son.   The Father spoke from Heaven.

[DJ7]

5 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

To more accurate, she was not a "translator."   She was one of the proofreaders for the English of NIV to make sure there were no English grammar mistakes or spelling mistakes.

Proof reader? Can still make changes if they want, why you think they proof read.

[DJ7]

Just now, shiloh357 said:

3 minutes ago, DJ7 said:

So if Jesus was fully God why then did he grow in favour with God and man if He was God?

That is talking about Jesus' humanity.  As a boy and as he grew, he grew in favor with God and man.  Jesus developed from a boy into a man, being fully human.

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Who spoke from heaven if Jesus was fully God?

God the Father.   Jesus is God the Son.   The Father spoke from Heaven.

So being 1 God, they're not actually 1 then because one in heaven and one on earth. One talking to another one makes 2 separate. 

So you have 2 Gods which breaks the ten commandments of no other God's but Me, 1 God.

 

[Guest shiloh357]

1 hour ago, DJ7 said:

So being 1 God, they're not actually 1 then because one in heaven and one on earth. One talking to another one makes 2 separate. 

So you have 2 Gods which breaks the ten commandments of no other God's but Me, 1 God.

 

No.  They are one  God, but separate persons.   It's a mystery that demonstrates why we say that God is beyond our comprehension.

[Guest shiloh357]

1 hour ago, DJ7 said:

Proof reader? Can still make changes if they want, why you think they proof read.

But a proof reader is not a translator and doesn't make substantive changes  that affect the meaning of the text.  They simply correct grammatical errors and misspellings.  

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Shiloh357 and KiwiChristian,

 

48 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

No.  They are one  God, but separate persons.   It's a mystery that demonstrates why we say that God is beyond our comprehension.

I suggest that Trinitarians are forced to say it is a mystery because the Trinity is incomprehensible, but the Bible teaching concerning God is simple and clear. The Trinity is incomprehensible because it has irreconcilable concepts that do not stand up to reasoning or any explanation. The Trinity would have to teach us that Jesus had two minds as a child, the mind of a child and the full mind of God (if he was also fully God) and there would be no real communication between the two minds.

 

On ‎11‎/‎03‎/‎2018 at 6:56 AM, KiwiChristian said:

Why Jesus is God? The Apostle Thomas called Jesus God. John 20:27-29

Further to my previous Post, the understanding of the use of Elohim for the Angels and Judges is one step towards understanding Thomas’ words in John 20:28. The title “God” as applied to Jesus is less than the title that John assigns him in the next few verses, the title and status of being The Son of God. If John wanted to teach that Jesus is God the Son, would not this be the opportunity. Rather the following summarises John’s stated purpose in writing his account.

 John 20:30-31 (KJV): 30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: 31  But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

The Angels and Judges can be called “Elohim”, but only Jesus has the exalted status of being the Only Begotten Son of God. He was the Son of God by birth, moral character and resurrection from the dead Romans 1:1-4.

The Bible teaches that there is one God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

 

Kind regards

Trevor

[Guest shiloh357]

5 minutes ago, TrevorL said:

Greetings again Shiloh357 and KiwiChristian,

 

I suggest that Trinitarians are forced to say it is a mystery because the Trinity is incomprehensible, but the Bible teaching concerning God is simple and clear. The Trinity is incomprehensible because it has irreconcilable concepts that do not stand up to reasoning or any explanation. The Trinity would have to teach us that Jesus had two minds as a child, the mind of a child and the full mind of God (if he was also fully God) and there would be no real communication between the two minds.

 

No, I suggest that Trinitarians simply believe the Bible as opposed to non-Trinitarians who can't accept that there are things about God that we cannot explain.  We also cannot explain why God has no beginning and no end.

The Trinity does not suggest that Jesus has two minds.   You simply don't understand the doctrine you are trying to criticize.

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Further to my previous Post, the understanding of the use of Elohim for the Angels and Judges is one step towards understanding Thomas’ words in John 20:28. The title “God” as applied to Jesus is less than the title that John assigns him in the next few verses, the title and status of being The Son of God. If John wanted to teach that Jesus is God the Son, would not this be the opportunity. Rather the following summarises John’s stated purpose in writing his account.

 John 20:30-31 (KJV): 30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: 31  But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

The Angels and Judges can be called “Elohim”, but only Jesus has the exalted status of being the Only Begotten Son of God. He was the Son of God by birth, moral character and resurrection from the dead Romans 1:1-4.

The Bible teaches that there is one God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

 

Kind regards

Trevor

 

"Son of God"  = God.

The term "Son of" is used in a very unique way in reference to Jesus to denote His deity.  

[TrevorL]

Greetings again shiloh357,

1 hour ago, shiloh357 said:

No, I suggest that Trinitarians simply believe the Bible as opposed to non-Trinitarians who can't accept that there are things about God that we cannot explain.  We also cannot explain why God has no beginning and no end.

I may not fully explain the eternity of God, but I can accept this without any concern, just as I can accept that the believers will become immortal at the return of Jesus.

1 hour ago, shiloh357 said:

The Trinity does not suggest that Jesus has two minds.   You simply don't understand the doctrine you are trying to criticize.

Until I hear a reasonable explanation of Jesus being fully God and fully man, especially in his youth, then I will retain my belief that Jesus was a man, the Son of God because the One God, God the Father was his father in the conception / birth process and Mary was his mother Luke 1:35. He grew as a child and grew in wisdom and in favour with God and man Luke 2:52. Yes I do not understand the Trinity, because it is beyond understanding and is a so-called mystery to hide this problem.

1 hour ago, shiloh357 said:

"Son of God"  = God.

The term "Son of" is used in a very unique way in reference to Jesus to denote His deity.  

You are stating the Trinity perspective, not what the Bible teaches Luke 1:35, Romans 1:1-4. A son has a father, and the father of Jesus is God the Father Matthew 11:25.

Kind regards Trevor.

[Your closest friendnt]

21 hours ago, patrick jane said:

God called the Son God 

 

Hebrews 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

This passage I think is from one of the Phalms, it's a prophetic statement, and there are many other prophetic statements in the Phalms. 

It is taulking about what will happen in the future at right time. 

It was not yet fullfilled. 

It is good to put the time of when that will happen in the right place. 

The prophecies also told and even at the time of Moses was told, that someone from amongs the people, God will raise up to him the people will follow, 

So you have after many centuries and many stage by stage prophecies that narrow thinks down. 

The people at the time of Jesus , they had understand that the one God will raise was from the trive of Juda. 

David who slain the Goliath, and the "son of David " who will slain the "Dragon". 

When David slain the Goliath, he was not sitted on the Throne right away. 

It was promised to him as the choice of God and not the people. 

David was not called king at his birth, even thought God had propose him to be the king and had put him in his plans and raise him up, and cause him to be born for that propose and one knew only God knew, (when I said only God knew, I mean to say his family did not know, even David he did not know, but later they knew. 

From the one to whom God had reveal and the one who gave the witness to tell the people.

The one God had raise up before with the miraculous birth, 

The one who when his mother was in the Temple, the barren mother God gave her a son Samuel. 

That's the one whom God had raise before David, and to whom God had reveal who was his chosen king. 

Jesus said: 

Don't you know that in the law of Moses, and the Phalms and the prophets it said that the Christ must suffer and die first before he receives his glory, 

The glory of the resurected Christ to be sitted on the Throne, as the scripture you have quoted, was not given to him before his resuraction but after he had slain the "Dragon" and not the same momment, ( even thought he was the appointed one the chosen one to be, the predistaned one before the fountantions of the earth. 

Jesus said I am the life, the only ligable one to be the Christ because he had the life, 

"The son of man, with the life of God in him" .

As the disciples teach later when they understood, Jonh chapter one: 

When God created the man he looked at him and said to him self: 

One day I will take flesh and look just like him. 

And we know that he left everything he had , all the former glory to be found in the form of a man. (We know through his birth) 

Seeking the Glory of the Christ, and to claim his inheritance, wich he could not claim till the former things die, or they are no more. 

Now that God the Father sitted him on the Throne and gave him all he had, 

"All powers and dominions in Heaven and Earth have been given unto me, go and preach the Gospel to every one, 

 

[Guest shiloh357]

4 hours ago, TrevorL said:

Greetings again shiloh357,

I may not fully explain the eternity of God, but I can accept this without any concern, just as I can accept that the believers will become immortal at the return of Jesus.

Yes and that is exactly how we deal with the mystery of the Trinity.  We can't explain it, but we can believe it, nonetheless.

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Until I hear a reasonable explanation of Jesus being fully God and fully man, especially in his youth, then I will retain my belief that Jesus was a man, the Son of God because the One God, God the Father was his father in the conception / birth process and Mary was his mother Luke 1:35. He grew as a child and grew in wisdom and in favour with God and man Luke 2:52.

The problem is that the Trinity doesn't make sense and is not intended to make sense. I readily admit that it is beyond the ability of me or anyone else to explain in an intellectually satisfying manner how it all works. 

But the Bible states that Jesus was born of a virgin and lived a sinless life and Jesus declared that He is God, on numerous occasions which was the basis of the blasphemy charges that were brought against Him. 

What people like you, who are not very well studied in the issue don't understand is that the "Son of"  in Hebrew thought is reference to two things that possess the same character/nature.    For example, Jesus referred to James and John as the "sons of thunder" after they wanted to call down fire on the Samaritans.   He referred to the Pharisees as "sons of hell."   It is not a paternal term.  It is used of Jesus when He is called the "Son of God" to refer to His divine nature being the same as that of God.   And that is borne out in the Greek of the Gospel of John.   

Son of God = God. You and others don't understand the Hebrew thought behind "Son of God"  as it is applied uniquely to Jesus.  By calling Jesus the Son of God, He is being called, "God."  Jesus even received worship even though He told Satan that only God is to be worshiped. He exercised personal power over death and nature.   Those are things only God can do.

 

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Yes I do not understand the Trinity, because it is beyond understanding and is a so-called mystery to hide this problem.

Only stubborn pride sees the mystery of the Trinity as a problem.   We talk constantly about how God transcends everything we know, how He is unfathomable and beyond our comprehension.   But when faced with a perfect example of something about God we can't explain or make sense of, we view that incomprehensible truth as false.   God lives in a different reality than we do.  And what doesn't make sense to us in our veil reality makes perfect sense in the realm of reality that He lives and operates in.

 

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You are stating the Trinity perspective, not what the Bible teaches Luke 1:35, Romans 1:1-4. A son has a father, and the father of Jesus is God the Father Matthew 11:25.

Nothing in those verses contradicts the Trinity.  You are simply not very well studied in the Trinity doctrine.   The relationship of God the Father and Jesus, His Son, is not paternal.   Jesus is not the offspring of God.   In fact, if you read Phil. 2: 5-8 and notice the verbs in that passage, it teaches the preexistence of Jesus in what He "made" himself to be in His incarnation compared to what He was before He is incarnation.