AMERICA: NEW ROME & BABYLON THE GREAT ("Come out of her, My people...")

[Last Daze]

20 hours ago, JoeChan82 said:

I have always viewed the 4 kingdoms represented by the statue in Daniel as; the Babylonian kingdom, the Medo-Persion kingdom, the Grecian kingdom, and the Roman empire.  

I think that in order to understand the great statue in Daniel 2, you have to view it through the eyes of Daniel 10.  There are evil angel "Princes" and "kings" that cause these kingdoms to come into power.

• But the prince of the kingdom of Persia was withstanding me for twenty-one days; then behold, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I had been left there with the kings of Persia.  Daniel 10:13

If you look only at the historical kingdoms then you have to somehow explain away this verse:

• Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver and the gold were crushed all at the same time and became like chaff from the summer threshing floors.  Daniel 2:35a

The spiritual Prince of the fourth kingdom is the same as the fourth beast of Daniel 7.  He causes two kingdoms to become manifested in the natural realm, the legs of iron (Rome) and the feet of iron and clay (the United Nations).  Even though these are separated by centuries, the same Prince is responsible for both.  He was cast into the abyss during the first century and released after the gospel was preached to all the nations.  He is known as the beast that comes up out of the sea in Revelation 13.

Not only has the Prince of the fourth kingdom been released from the abyss, but the other Princes have as well and are actively stirring things up.  The forces of wickedness are "all in" in the last days.  This can be seen when you compare the description of the beasts of Daniel 7 with the description of the beast in Revelation 13.  The spiritual Princes of Babylon, Persia, Greece, and Rome are all active today.  They aren't restricted to geography so its hard to say what their efforts look like today.  Perhaps the prince of Greece is the one stirring the radical Islam pot?  There's no real way to know for sure, but all the spiritual Princes of yesteryear are active again.

That's how the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver and the gold all get crushed at the same time when Jesus returns.

[Daniel 11:36]

Here are the 7 kingdoms of the beast as described in terms of Satan's involvement: The land of Magog, the Assyrian, Babylonian, Persian, Seleucid, the little horn's kingdom [smaller at first], and his expanded kingdom

The first 5 have fallen .... the next two are coming during the 70th week still pending

Three of these kingdoms from Daniel's perspective fell [Babylon, Persia and Seleucid], but all will be a part of the little horn's expanded kingdom in the future   

Edited June 3, 2018 by Daniel 11:36

[JoeChan82]

4 hours ago, Last Daze said:

If you look only at the historical kingdoms then you have to somehow explain away this verse:

• Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver and the gold were crushed all at the same time and became like chaff from the summer threshing floors.  Daniel 2:35a

There is no doubt in my mind that there is a spiritual and an historical element to these kingdoms.  The statue itself was a dream given to Nebuchadnezzar and not an actual statue. Each kingdom succeeds the next, beginning with Nebuchadnezzar as the head of gold. We also know that the next kingdom was Media Persia, followed by Grecia. In Daniel 8, Daniel has a vision of the ram and the goat, which again is explained by the scriptures in the same chapter as Media Persia and Grecia.  I have no doubt that these are real historical kingdoms and I also have no doubt that Michael and Gabriel do battle with Satan and his angels.  So I think that we are in agreement. 

Where I see us possibly going in different directions is the identity of the fourth kingdom. Until recently, I was convinced it was Rome.  I read Alexander Hislop's The Two Babylons.  It compares Rome and Babylon by doctrine, symbols, and holidays.  It seemed like a natural spiritual progression from Babylon to Rome. The history of the world also provided a natural physical progression.  Now, I am investigating the possibility that the fourth kingdom may spring from the breakup of Alexander the Great's kingdom.  Like I said, I am investigating the possibility.

[Brother Duke]

On 6/3/2018 at 4:14 PM, eileenhat said:

Yet, true.

I don't need to research it, so obvious to me what this scripture verse in Rev. 12 references.  "Wings" ...the military often uses wings in depictions on it's logos, for example.  The idea that wings make an eagle fly/move forward is right there.  So too is a military army moving Trump (as in the last "Trump" forward with his goals to eliminate Satan's minions, ie. The beast out of the Sea/UN/NWO from earth) forward.  They are propelling him in fact straight into attacks against satan's men here on earth.  Qanon reports on it regularly now with proof provided in abundance.  Hard to debate Qanon due to him being proved accurate many times at this time.

Without researching, the term 'eagle' often depicts leaders.  In USA always does.

A women is obvious in meaning.  It is a woman.  Obviously one of the two witness of Rev. 11 (so she is the very first resurrected daughter of God on earth and therefore Christ bride which, in fact, the only sign Jesus said would be given, ie. Jonah's sign, which means it is written in the stars as well this time, occurred last Sept. 23rd to confirm her actual appearance on earth at this time). 

Zechariah 5 tells us the two witnesses are women, already.  It also tells why only one witness lives, but that is another longer revelation.

So obvious, all.  I have covered many of these details already in previous posts.

If you want to make it difficult to understand, then that is a decision.  I do not see the need myself.

 

The Wings in Rev 12 are the sames as in Exodus.  God carries Israel into safety on his wings.

Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself.

Now he will guide Israel out of Babylon instead of Egypt.

And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
 

The Women represents Israel/Church.  Israel is God's witness and always has been.  Zechariah does not say the 2 witnesses are women.   Zechariah speaks of the 2 olive trees and Israel is also represented by the Olive Tree.

Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.

Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

The LORD called thy name, A green olive tree, fair, and of goodly fruit: with the noise of a great tumult he hath kindled fire upon it, and the branches of it are broken.

 

 

 

Edited June 11, 2018 by Brother Duke

[Revelation Man]

On 6/3/2018 at 2:46 PM, JoeChan82 said:

There is no doubt in my mind that there is a spiritual and an historical element to these kingdoms.  The statue itself was a dream given to Nebuchadnezzar and not an actual statue. Each kingdom succeeds the next, beginning with Nebuchadnezzar as the head of gold. We also know that the next kingdom was Media Persia, followed by Grecia. In Daniel 8, Daniel has a vision of the ram and the goat, which again is explained by the scriptures in the same chapter as Media Persia and Grecia.  I have no doubt that these are real historical kingdoms and I also have no doubt that Michael and Gabriel do battle with Satan and his angels.  So I think that we are in agreement. 

Where I see us possibly going in different directions is the identity of the fourth kingdom. Until recently, I was convinced it was Rome.  I read Alexander Hislop's The Two Babylons.  It compares Rome and Babylon by doctrine, symbols, and holidays.  It seemed like a natural spiritual progression from Babylon to Rome. The history of the world also provided a natural physical progression.  Now, I am investigating the possibility that the fourth kingdom may spring from the breakup of Alexander the Great's kingdom.  Like I said, I am investigating the possibility.

I have read all of your above posts, don't doubt your intuition here, you were correct to start with. The Four Beasts spoken of from Daniels time on is of course Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome, anyone not understanding Rome to be a Beast I don't pay much attention to as per their understandings, I am sorry, especially when they were the Greatest Beast per the Mediterranean Sea Region and they were a Beast when Christ died, so its just incredulous to me when someone says Rome is not a Beast. 

Jesus however shows John all Seven of the Beasts that Arose from the [Mediterranean] Sea. Since Rev. 17 tells us Five have Fallen, then we understand of the Seven Beast Heads 5 were in the past, thus since we know what a Beast is (one that Conquers, Enslaves or Rules Israel) we can look back and use common sense and see who they were or who they HAD TO BE !! Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia and Greece, who else could they be? No other Nations have ruled over Israel. So Five have FALLEN........ONE IS (Rome).........and one is YET TO COME (Anti-Christ). 

After Rome dispersed Israel via the diaspora Circa 70-125 AD,  there could be NO BEAST over Israel, thus the Mortal Wound. God saw Israel as Dead Men's Bones via the Prophecy of Dry Bones, thus they were NOTHING to God. This is why we have a Statue that SKIPS 2000 years from the Iron legs unto the Iron Feet mixed with Clay feet, and the Four Beasts that SKIP 2000 Years all the way to the Little Horn and 10 Kings, this is why the 70th Week SKIPS 2000 years, then God Judges Israel after the Church Age. God doesn't even recognize Israel as being alive, thus the snapshot or life-span of Israel paints a picture of how God sees Israel full life-span, From Abraham to Jesus.......DEAD BONES......1948, God revives them. The true picture/snapshot of God leaves the 2000 years out. Now the Statue MAKES SENSE.................Now the Four Beasts followed by the Little Horn MAKES SENSE................Now the 70th Week Judgment MAKES SENSE.  Our ways are not Gods ways. 

This following is only a theory I am working on because I just received it a few weeks ago. I always research things the Holy Spirit gives me to make sure they are of the Holy Spirit (Try the Spirits to see of they be of God). THIS IS WILD, but not really. 

The One World Government was building to a crescendo from violent Beast to Violent Beast, each metal was less precious, but each metal was also HARDER if you catch my drift, they were getting more powerful as they went along, and more ruthless so to speak, then all of the sudden, they (The Beast Kingdoms/Seven Head Figurative Beast) received the Mortal Wound. Jesus said he would build his Church and the gates of hell would not prevail against it once we were given the Holy Spirit. 

Thus the 2000 year Church Age is an age where Satan, though at work trying to kill, steal and destroy souls, could never put together his desired One World Government like he had planned, the Church via the Holy Spirit was the MORTAL WOUND to the FIGURATIVE BEAST Kingdoms and it went away until Israel comes Back (1948) AND the Church is thus Raptured (taken out of the way), then and ONLY THEN can the Anti-Christ go forth, because Jesus then will release the Anti-Christ to go forth and Conquer Jerusalem at the Midway point of the 7 years of the 70th Week, thus becoming a BEAST over Israel and the Mediterranean Sea Region like all the other SIX BEASTS were. The Church delivers the Mortal Wound in this theory, Satan can not prevail against the Church, and I admit I always thought it was the diaspora that delivered the Mortal Wound, but I am weighing this as we speak. 

Babylon is THE WHOLE WORLD under Satan's Dark Rule.

The Harlot is ALL FALSE RELIGION, which the Anti-Christ will destroy and then he appoints a False Prophet to fill the void. 

 

Edited June 14, 2018 by Revelation Man

[Daniel 11:36]

Your are closer to the truth Revelation man than most

But consider this

Of the 4 beasts in Daniel's visions from Babylon on there are 3

The 4th has not come yet and will be during the 70th week decreed for Israel

These 4 beasts are seen as "animal" kingdoms by Daniel

The beast himself is different .... this beast is Abaddon/Apollyon

He is the one who has ruled over the first 5 beasts, then was sent to the abyss, and will come out of the abyss at the beginning of the 70th week still to come

This beast does Satan's bidding and rules over the 7 kingdoms of the Middle East

Here are his 7 kingdoms as projected with Satan as the ultimate ruler: rule of the land of Magog, Mesheck and Tubal, the Assyrian rule, the neo-Babylonian rule, the Persian rule, the Seleucid rule of Antiochus IV, and the next two rules of the human little horn seen in Daniel's visions

The first 5 kingdoms fell just before the first century .... he will rule the next two during the 70th week decreed for Israel .... the smaller one, and then the expanded one

Abaddon will come out of the abyss to rule again over his last two kingdoms in the Middle East just before the Lord defeats him and sends him to the lake of fire at the battle of Armageddon

Edited June 13, 2018 by Daniel 11:36

[Revelation Man]

1 hour ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

Here are his 7 kingdoms as projected with Satan as the ultimate ruler: the land of Magog, Mesheck and Tubal,

I will start with this brother, I take you serious because we believe via probably 90-95 percent on eschatology and other biblical doctrines also. Who do you see as and when are you seeing, Magog, Mesheck and Tubal, I mean I know who they are supposed to be, but when do they become a Beat over the Mediterranean (MSR) Sea Region? Because God himself destroys then via Ezekiel, so they never Beast over Israel or the MSR at all. So how or they ever a Beast? OK, I got that out of the way, now we can go through this. 

1 hour ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

Of the 4 beasts in Daniel's visions from Babylon on there are 3

The 4th has not come yet and will be during the 70th week decreed for Israel

Why? I see Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome. You have to tell me why From Babylon on there is only 3 Beasts brother. Most people I would poo poo via this aspect of their understanding, but I respect your intellect and understandings/beliefs.....LIKEWISE, even though Einstein had his Theory of Relativity wrong by a hair for many years, he was still a brilliant man, who could question his journey to the truth, if you know what I mean. So I do not question you in disrespect, we are all but vessels whom God is dragging unto the His truths.

By the way, I see 5 Beasts in Daniel, God just speaks of 4, He does things in weird riddles on purpose. So you are right about there being an END TIME BEAST via your understanding  (THERE IS), but seeing that might have thrown you off kilter on the front end. You see I see the Four plus the Little Horn as all being Beasts. Thus we have 5, plus we have Egypt and Assyria. Thus we have a total of 7 earthly Beast Heads........AND Apollyon who is over the Mediterranean Sea Region and thus over all 7 (he is OF THE 7), he was placed there by Satan, he is a Principality in High Places that Paul spoke of, Apollyon/Abaddon was the Prince of Persia, he did not want Grecia to defeat Persia thus he withstood Micheal for 21 days. Micheal is why Greece Conquered Persia in such a speedy manner, it had nothing to do with Alexander the Greats "GREATNESS" so to speak. Thus Apollyon was over each Beast Kingdom, I agree with that.

1 hour ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

He is the one who has ruled over the first 5 beasts, then was sent to the abyss, and will come out of the abyss at the beginning of the 70th week still to come

I agree except for there being two left. Rev. 17 does one thing, it prepares us for the LAST BEAST being a Man, God does this by REDUCING the Seven Kingdoms to Seven Kings of which 5 have Fallen, ONE IS (Rome---and thus must Fall under ONE MAN sooner or later, that's a given) and ONE IS YET TO COME---The Anti-Christ will FALL like the other 6 Kings who were at the helm when their Kingdoms FELL---The big difference is he, unlike the others, is at the Helm when the BEAST is revived, and he is also at the Helm when the BEAST FALLS, thus he is THE LAST BEAST himself. This is why God Reduces the Seven Kingdoms to Seven Kings !! He wants us to know the LAST BEAST is a Man, not a Kingdom passed from Kong to King. Does that make sense brother?  

You see, I don't think Apollyon, who is an 8th King will ever by a physical King on this earth, hes a Spiritual Power over the Mediterranean Sea Region. Hos job titles means he was given the chore of DESTROYING ISRAEL, they call him the Destroyer. He has tried time and again, in Egypt he tried to run them into the Sea, God opened the Sea, Amen !! He tried to take Israel away via the 10 Tribes, but God protected Judah. He wanted to destroy them in Babylon, but God raised up Cyrus, who was a Beast over them, but God gave them favor. He tried to destroy them with Greece and Antiochus Epiphanes, but he died suddenly. He tried to destroy them via Rome, but God raised up a Church for 2000 years and then imprisoned Apollyon in the Bottomless Pit. Apollyon is going to be released from the Bottomless Pit and he will try to Destroy Israel again but we know how that works out don'd we brother, Amen. 

So Apollyon ruled of the First Five, plus Rome, when Israel was Dispersed or when the Church was Born he was placed in the Bottomless Pit, he will be freed at the First Woe, he will then kill the Two-witnesses at the Second Woe. One thing I have figured out, he is the Scarlet Colored Beast of Rev. 17.

1.) Rev. 12 = The Red Dragon which represents Satan thus the Seven Heads have Crowns because Satan, as Luke ch. 4 teaches us per Satan offering them all unto Jesus and as he stated, all were given unto him to do as he willed with, thus he is over every Kingdom of this world. Thus the Crowns on the Seven Heads represent Satan as the Head of this Worlds Kingdoms.

2.) Rev. 13 = The Beast that arises out of the [Mediterranean] Sea. The Crowns are thus on the 10 Horns/Kings because the Beast is given Power over the 10 Kings, because they give their Power unto him. Thus the Crowns are on the Horns, this represents the Beast being Head over the 10 Kings in the end time.

3.) The Scarlet Colored Beast = Apollyon, he was given his position by Satan, he was IMHO, the Prince of Persia and thus over every Beast in the Mediterranean Sea Region, thus they each arise out of the Sea. This Beast is a different color, not Red by Scarlet/Purple and Red. He has NO CROWNS because he is only over the Mediterranean Sea Region as appointed by Satan who is over him, thus NO CROWNS are shown on this Beast. Later on in Revelation chapter 17 we are explained about him, just like in Rev. 12 we are explained what Satan has done and tried to do and in Rev. 13 we are told about the coming Anti-Christ/Beast.......here in Rev. 17, we are told about the BEAST that WAS.......is not......YET IS. We are explained that he is of the SEVEN but is an 8th. Hes a Demon Spirit over the whole Region. But hes NEVER a physical Kingdom. 

2 hours ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

This beast does Satan's bidding and rules over the 7 kingdoms of the Middle East

 

Agreed, as I explained above.

2 hours ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

Here are his 7 kingdoms as projected with Satan as the ultimate ruler: the land of Magog, Mesheck and Tubal, the Assyrian rule, the neo-Babylonian rule, the Persian rule, the Seleucid rule of Antiochus IV, and the next two rules of the human little horn seen in Daniel's visions

The first 5 kingdoms fell just before the first century .... the next two will rule during the 70th week decreed for Israel .... the smaller one, and then the expanded one

Abaddon will come out of the abyss to rule again over his last two kingdoms in the Middle East just before the Lord defeats him and sends him to the lake of fire at the battle of Armageddon

I mentioned the first sentence above to start with. I do see the Assyrian rule, the Babylonian rule, the Persian rule, the Grecian rule because Greece was the 3rd Beast, Antiochus Epiphanes was a Forerunner to the Anti-Christ, AND I think the False Prophet had a Forerunner via his rule also. Jason bribed Antiochus to become the High Priest, Antiochus thus killed the High Priest, a Pius man named Onias III, who just so happened to be Jason's brother. Get this, of course Jason was not named that, he took on a Hellenistic name, his name was Yeshua but of course he wanted to Hellenize Jerusalem and the Jews. Thus I see him as a FORERUNNER for the False Prophet !! BOOM !! 

Why do you think there is yet 2 Kingdoms to come? Are you counting Apollyon? Hes a Demon over a Region. Rome fell at a certain point in time. The Last Kingdom Arises out of the Fourth Beast but I think its a 5th Beast. When the Last Beast Conquers Israel he thus Heals the Mortal Wound of the Seven Head Figurative Beast. The Last Beast Head lives. That's how I see it, give me your feed back brother.

I see in the last Sentence you see two Beasts left in the Middle East. Tell me who you think they are.

God Bless. 

[Daniel 11:36]

There is only one beast and he is Abaddon .... he is currently in the abyss and will be released to rule during the coming tribulation period [Revelation 9:11]

There are 4 "beast" kingdoms listed from neo-Babylon forward 

Three of them have been terminated, but will become part of the beast's 4th kingdom during the coming tribulation period

It is the 4th kingdom that will rule during the same 70th week decreed for Israel

This kingdom will have two parts .... the smaller 6th kingdom, and the seventh larger kingdom

The human little horn of Daniel's visions will rule over both one after the other and ultimately will be taken over by the beast who will become the 8th king ruling over all 7 kingdoms [the land of Magog, the Assyrian, the neo-Babylonian, the Persian, the Seleucid .... and the two future kingdoms of the 70th week]  

This rule will include Satan's beast at the helm [Revelation 9:11; 13:1-4; 17:8-18]

The two beasts will both be fallen angels during the coming 70th week decreed for Israel

 

 

Edited June 14, 2018 by Daniel 11:36

[Diaste]

22 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

I have read all of your above posts, don't doubt you intuition here, you were correct to start with. The Four Beasts spoken of from Daniels time on is of course Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome, anyone not understanding Rome to be a Beast I don't pay much attention to as per their understandings, I am sorry, especially when they were the Greatest Beast per the Mediterranean Sea Region and they were a Beast when Christ died, so its just incredulous to me when someone says Rome is not a Beast. 

Jesus however shows John all Seven of the Beasts that Arose from the [Mediterranean] Sea. Since Rev. 17 tells us Five have Fallen, then we understand of the Seven Beast Heads 5 were in the past, thus since we know what a Beast is (one that Conquers, Enslaves or Rules Israel) we can look back and use common sense and see who they were or who they HAD TO BE !! Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia and Greece, who else could they be? No other Nations have ruled over Israel. So Five have FALLEN........ONE IS (Rome).........and one is YET TO COME (Anti-Christ). 

After Rome dispersed Israel via the diaspora Circa 70-125 AD,  there could be NO BEAST over Israel, thus the Mortal Wound. God saw Israel as Dead Men's Bones via the Prophecy of Dry Bones, thus they were NOTHING to God. This is why we have a Statue that SKIPS 2000 years from the Iron legs unto the Iron Feet mixed with Clay feet, and the Four Beasts that SKIP 2000 Years all the way to the Little Horn and 10 Kings, this is why the 70th Week SKIPS 2000 years, then God Judges Israel after the Church Age. God doesn't even recognize Israel as being alive, thus the snapshot or life-span of Israel paints a picture of how God sees Israel full life-span, From Abraham to Jesus.......DEAD BONES......1948, God revives them. The true picture/snapshot of God leaves the 2000 years out. Now the Statue MAKES SENSE.................Now the Four Beasts followed by the Little Horn MAKES SENSE................Now the 70th Week Judgment MAKES SENSE.  Our ways are not Gods ways. 

This following is only a theory I am working on because I just received it a few weeks ago. I always research things the Holy Spirit gives me to make sure they are of the Holy Spirit (Try the Spirits to see of they be of God). THIS IS WILD, but not really. 

The One World Government was building to a crescendo from violent Beast to Violent Beast, each metal was less precious, but each metal was also HARDER if you catch my drift, they were getting more powerful as they went along, and more ruthless so to speak, then all of the sudden, they (The Beast Kingdoms/Seven Head Figurative Beast) received the Mortal Wound. Jesus said he would build his Church and the gates of hell would not prevail against it once we were given the Holy Spirit. 

Thus the 2000 year Church Age is an age where Satan, though at work trying to kill, steal and destroy souls, could never put together his desired One World Government like he had planned, the Church via the Holy Spirit was the MORTAL WOUND to the FIGURATIVE BEAST Kingdoms and it went away until Israel comes Back (1948) AND the Church is thus Raptured (taken out of the way), then and ONLY THEN can the Anti-Christ go forth, because Jesus then will release the Anti-Christ to go forth and Conquer Jerusalem at the Midway point of the 7 years of the 70th Week, thus becoming a BEAST over Israel and the Mediterranean Sea Region like all the other SIX BEASTS were. The Church delivers the Mortal Wound in this theory, Satan can not prevail against the Church, and I admit I always thought it was the diaspora that delivered the Mortal Wound, but I am weighing this as we speak. 

Babylon is THE WHOLE WORLD under Satan's Dark Rule.

The Harlot is ALL FALSE RELIGION, which the Anti-Christ will destroy and then he appoints a False Prophet to fill the void. 

 

Islam was a far greater power in the Mideast and the area around the Mediterranean than Rome. That and the fact that the beast must come from either Egypt, Asia Minor, Greece or the Mideast. Rome has nothing to do with the beast, or the beast kingdom. 

[Daniel 11:36]

"Rome has nothing to do with the beast, or the beast kingdom"

 

Correct

Rome is in the NT, but not with regard for any prophetic insight