Everything That Can Be Shaken Is About To Be...

[Guest Butero]

5 hours ago, walla299 said:

Hmm . . . sorry, bud, but that's starting to sound a bit Gnostic. Just sayin'. Deeper Relationship was the same thing the Gnostics were claiming and were roundly condemned in Scripture.

Gnostics?  You have got to be kidding!  Why is it when someone has a disagreement, they start comparing people to cults, the RCC and now Gnostics?  I have read some gnostic writings, and he isn't saying anything close to what they are.  Get real.  

[Guest Butero]

6 hours ago, Wayne222 said:

Yowm this is for you. You are one of the most well verse christians on this site. We learn alot from your posts. And your a reasonable person too. Keep up the good work.

I will say one thing for Yowm, he does think for himself.  He clearly doesn't follow the crowd.  I like that about his posts.  I often disagree with him, but he is a thinker, which makes others have to think as well.  

[Not me]

11 minutes ago, Butero said:

I do believe the old man of sin died when we were born again.  I am really just trying to get Gideon to explain what looks like possible inconsistencies.  I am not opposing him.  I am just trying to get some things straightened out so I fully understand him before making any judgments about what he is saying.  

I have read some of Watchman Nee's material.  

Ok, I was just trying to help. I will stay out of your conversation with Gideon. I’m sure he will answer you the best he can. If I can offer any help, just ask. Know your loved and being prayed for. 

Your brother in Christ, Not me

Edited April 22, 2018 by Not me

[Gideon]

1 hour ago, Butero said:

I do believe the old man of sin died when we were born again.  I am really just trying to get Gideon to explain what looks like possible inconsistencies.  I am not opposing him.  I am just trying to get some things straightened out so I fully understand him before making any judgments about what he is saying.  

I have read some of Watchman Nee's material.  

 

1 hour ago, Not me said:

Ok, I was just trying to help. I will stay out of your conversation with Gideon. I’m sure he will answer you the best he can. If I can offer any help, just ask. Know your loved and being prayed for. 

Your brother in Christ, Not me

Ok, let me tackle the last question..... for now, lol. You asked if we slip, are we putting the grave cloths back on. 

Butero, when we slip.....or more accurately, as John said IF we slip....it is simply our taking our eyes off Jesus. When Peter climbed out of the boat and began walking to Jesus, he walked on water! But, the winds and waves kicked up.....which had zero to do with his miracle.... and he began to sink. His eyes left Jesus.

As we step out in faith in the beginning, often, our faith is shaky. But as we continue to believe, even if we slip, we find our faith grows. So, no, we are not putting the  grave clothes back on. However, let’s say that we go through a period of doubt after our first slip and we assume it was all a dream and we go back to our normal routine. Sins return, we make little if any progress in being changed into His likeness. What happens then?  It would seem we do actually begin to cloth ourselves with what previously had restricted us. Our rest is interrupted. We lose the joy of our salvation and our confidence in the Lord to keep us from falling and we look less and less alive. 

At this point, I want to make sure you understand that even if someone is totally wrapped in grave cloths again, he may be uncomfortable, he may be miserable, but he is still alive from the dead. Resurrected. A new creature. It is this FACT that helps us stand up again and believe! It is not when we believe hard enough that we enter in. We believe, even if our faith is minuscule, because our death and resurrection IS a fact! 

Is it possible to go back to death, to lose what God has done altogether? Yes, but it is very rare. Once one has had their eyes opened, and then returns to willful sin, we are told there remains no more sacrifice for sins but a certain fearful looking for of judgment. Paul continues. For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened and tasted of the heavenly calling to renew them again unto repentance. 

I want here to make one thing clear. Christians, the wheat, the virgins with oil, even if unlit,  have,  throughout the long dry summer, still been new creations. Even if they never come into agreement with God that the old natured them is dead, they still are new. Their works, done in the flesh, might be burned up, but they are saved. They were judged based upon what they had received. 

But we are entering the harvest, spurred on by the latter rain. We are about to have our eyes opened. To whom much is given, much is required.  What was acceptable for a saint in the past will not be soon. We will be given much light, and so choosing to ‘hang back with the crowd’ will put one in danger. It will be imperative that we walk in the light as He is in the light, and keep pace with what He reveals to us all. 

I hope this helps. At some point, it will not be head questions being satisfactorily answered but heart hunger that drives one to the river Jordan, and decides, giants or no, to go in and take the land of promise(s). You are in my prayers and I covet yours as well. 

Blessings, 

Gideon

[Guest Butero]

23 minutes ago, Gideon said:

 

Ok, let me tackle the last question..... for now, lol. You asked if we slip, are we putting the grave cloths back on. 

Butero, when we slip.....or more accurately, as John said IF we slip....it is simply our taking our eyes off Jesus. When Peter climbed out of the boat and began walking to Jesus, he walked on water! But, the winds and waves kicked up.....which had zero to do with his miracle.... and he began to sink. His eyes left Jesus.

As we step out in faith in the beginning, often, our faith is shaky. But as we continue to believe, even if we slip, we find our faith grows. So, no, we are not putting the  grave clothes back on. However, let’s say that we go through a period of doubt after our first slip and we assume it was all a dream and we go back to our normal routine. Sins return, we make little if any progress in being changed into His likeness. What happens then?  It would seem we do actually begin to cloth ourselves with what previously had restricted us. Our rest is interrupted. We lose the joy of our salvation and our confidence in the Lord to keep us from falling and we look less and less alive. 

At this point, I want to make sure you understand that even if someone is totally wrapped in grave cloths again, he may be uncomfortable, he may be miserable, but he is still alive from the dead. Resurrected. A new creature. It is this FACT that helps us stand up again and believe! It is not when we believe hard enough that we enter in. We believe, even if our faith is minuscule, because our death and resurrection IS a fact! 

Is it possible to go back to death, to lose what God has done altogether? Yes, but it is very rare. Once one has had their eyes opened, and then returns to willful sin, we are told there remains no more sacrifice for sins but a certain fearful looking for of judgment. Paul continues. For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened and tasted of the heavenly calling to renew them again unto repentance. 

I want here to make one thing clear. Christians, the wheat, the virgins with oil, even if unlit,  have,  throughout the long dry summer, still been new creations. Even if they never come into agreement with God that the old natured them is dead, they still are new. Their works, done in the flesh, might be burned up, but they are saved. They were judged based upon what they had received. 

But we are entering the harvest, spurred on by the latter rain. We are about to have our eyes opened. To whom much is given, much is required.  What was acceptable for a saint in the past will not be soon. We will be given much light, and so choosing to ‘hang back with the crowd’ will put one in danger. It will be imperative that we walk in the light as He is in the light, and keep pace with what He reveals to us all. 

I hope this helps. At some point, it will not be head questions being satisfactorily answered but heart hunger that drives one to the river Jordan, and decides, giants or no, to go in and take the land of promise(s). You are in my prayers and I covet yours as well. 

Blessings, 

Gideon

No more questions for you.  You have answered everything to where I feel I understand you.  Thanks again for taking the time to do that.  I hope it will also help others to better understand what you are saying.  I think at least part of the disagreements are based on not quite grasping things.  That is clearly not true for everyone, but at least for some.  

@Not me I am not upset you tried to answer for Gideon.  In a message board, anyone is free to jump in and answer anything.  It is just that in this case, I needed to know exactly what he was saying.  We can agree in general, but not look at things exactly the same, and it was important that I know what he believes.  At this point, I think any misunderstandings, at least on my part, are cleared up.  The Lord bless you brother.  

[Not me]

52 minutes ago, Butero said:

No more questions for you.  You have answered everything to where I feel I understand you.  Thanks again for taking the time to do that.  I hope it will also help others to better understand what you are saying.  I think at least part of the disagreements are based on not quite grasping things.  That is clearly not true for everyone, but at least for some.  

@Not me I am not upset you tried to answer for Gideon.  In a message board, anyone is free to jump in and answer anything.  It is just that in this case, I needed to know exactly what he was saying.  We can agree in general, but not look at things exactly the same, and it was important that I know what he believes.  At this point, I think any misunderstandings, at least on my part, are cleared up.  The Lord bless you brother.  

Thanks Butero! 

I just didn’t want to derail the conversation. We’ll all trying to grow in Christ. So “life” is what matters. 

Blessing to you, Not me