Conversation between Teacher & Student

[JTC]

I'm not sure which problem lead to this post, but I'm glad we are addressing all the false teachings that are too common. With the help of the Internet maybe we can start changing this. But up until recently there was little a believer could do about false teachings. For example, I was saved in 1980 or so and then joined my 1st church. Until then I was only in Catholic churches. But I was also different in that I had already read thru the Bible once. I learned many of my church friends had never even done that. So all they knew or could know is what they heard in their church, on TV such as the Jimmy Swaggart show, or from their friends. This was not a good situation. Being an ex-Catholic I had learned that our sins do matter to God. As to what we should do about this, I rejected the Catholic's answers. So what did my new Born Again church teach about this? I then hit my 1st problem with Born Again beliefs. Basically I was told to simply confess the sin to God, I'm forgiven, and I shouldn't be concerned anymore. Jesus handled my sin problems on the cross and I no longer have to. But, what about future sins? Same answer, Jesus took care of them, I do nothing. It certainly was easy compared to Catholicism, a little too easy. So off I went, searching the Scriptures for an answer. Seems to me that since Jesus had to die an unpleasant death over this, it must be important to God. 

All that was some 35 yrs ago and I'm still searching the scriptures. I think I finally learned some things so that my opinion is worth sharing. I asked myself, why is my opinion any better than men who dedicated their life to God (Catholic priests, or better than some recently appointed pastor who's only qualifications may be he's a good speaker.) The more I learn about how pastors are appointed the more dismayed I get. At least a Catholic priest has done much learning and praying to become a priest. Nevertheless, some of them were living the life of a criminal. So this is a hard situation we're in.

IMO the churches have entered a new phase due to the Internet. This is also effecting the Catholics, which is good. All churches can now research what they allow to be taught. We are making history as I write this. I hope God makes sure it's a good history. Uh-oh I just realized this is too long.

God Bless.

[JTC]

33 minutes ago, Heleadethme said:

Not me.....with respect I just want to point out that I think we need to be careful about preaching "relationship with Christ" as being the arbiter of truth and untruth......it is just far too subjective to be reliable and allows too much leeway for the flesh.  One person's relationship with Christ can teach him one thing, and another's relationship with Christ can teach another person something completely opposite.  It happens all the time.   Shouldn't rather the Word of God be the firm ground that we stand on, believe, and entrust our eternal souls to?  This is why we are told to test the spirits....against what?  Against the Word.  And it is in obeying the Word that we follow Jesus and receive the things of the kingdom.  People all over Christendom are having relationships with all kinds of Christs, except the real one.  I would even say this is adding to the word of God, because scripture doesn't teach it that way, and I do pray that you will re-consider your thinking on that line.

You have made a good point. However even just following the scriptures can lead 2 people in 2 different ways. All this is happening and I don't have the answer, but at least we are realizing it. As I said above, we are currently making Biblical/church history.

[Heleadethme]

24 minutes ago, JTC said:

You have made a good point. However even just following the scriptures can lead 2 people in 2 different ways. All this is happening and I don't have the answer, but at least we are realizing it. As I said above, we are currently making Biblical/church history.

A lot of error is due to the person's own heart and trying to justify their flesh, or the lens of their own limited experience, etc, etc.....however it still remains that the word of God is what needs to be taught, not an ephemeral, subjective relationship that is much wider open to anything goes.  Because....anything does NOT go.

[Not me]

2 hours ago, Heleadethme said:

Not me.....with respect I just want to point out that I think we need to be careful about preaching "relationship with Christ" as being the arbiter of truth and untruth......it is just far too subjective to be reliable and allows too much leeway for the flesh.  One person's relationship with Christ can teach him one thing, and another's relationship with Christ can teach another person something completely opposite.  It happens all the time.   Shouldn't rather the Word of God be the firm ground that we stand on, believe, and entrust our eternal souls to?  This is why we are told to test the spirits....against what?  Against the Word.  And it is in obeying the Word that we follow Jesus and receive the things of the kingdom.  People all over Christendom are having relationships with all kinds of Christs, except the real one.  I would even say this is adding to the word of God, because scripture doesn't teach it that way, and I do pray that you will re-consider your thinking on that line.

I have read your post and appreciate your concerns and agree that their are many so called “Christ’s” in the world telling people to do all sorts of unrighteous acts. But they are really not “Christ”. They are following their own imagination(s). I also agree that if what your following goes against scripture,  your following something “other”. 

But is it not true with  your personal relationship with Christ. That is it the integrity of your heart that keeps you honest before Him? For I know you know that  Christ came to really and truly live inside you. Do you not want that relationship with one Who took up residence inside you to be enlarged? Do you not want to grow to all the fullness of Christ.  Would you not like your personal relationship with Christ to grow in all areas.  Would you not want to know Him in all things?

For according to scripture, it is ones personal relationship with Christ that is the arbitrator of all things. For scripture says “let the peace of Christ rule in your heart”. As I’m sure you know that word rule can also be translated “arbitrate” so scripture says “let the peace of Christ arbitrate in your heart”. If something upsets the peace of Christ He is bringing something to your attention. For the Spirit that dwells in you is there to teach you all things. For the things of God are Spiritually discerned, only the Spirit can correctly translate the written words to a Spiritual reality and apply them in a believers life.  

How do you know when your reading the word how to correctly divide the word of truth? Do you not go to God yourself and press into Him that He might show you a deeper truth in this or that area? So when you do, are you not having dealings with Christ “in you”.  For Christ came to bless all His people with Himself as an inward reality so for all eternity Christ in us would be our hope of glory. 

So wishing you an increase in Christ in all things.

much love in Christ, Not me

 

 

2 hours ago, Heleadethme said:

hoo boy, sorry, but if there were a "roll the eyes" option I would have to choose it here.  It sounds like a flower-child of the sixties smoking something they shouldn't.    I am not trying to be rude, but hoping to make a point, in love.

I’m sorry my well wishes bothered you so. 

Much love in Christ, Not me

Edited May 11, 2018 by Not me

[JTC]

1 hour ago, Yowm said:

We were able to do that before the Internet, don't you think?

Well yes, but not the way we can now. (it's times like this a person's age speaks volumes). All I mean by that is some members can barely remember life before the Internet. It was quite different.

[Heleadethme]

1 hour ago, Not me said:

I have read your post and appreciate your concerns and agree that their are many so called “Christ’s” in the world telling people to do all sorts of unrighteous acts. But they are really not “Christ”. They are following their own imagination(s). I also agree that if what your following goes against scripture,  your following something “other”. 

But is it not true with  your personal relationship with Christ. That is it the integrity of your heart that keeps you honest before Him? For I know you know that  Christ came to really and truly live inside you. Do you not want that relationship with one Who took up residence inside you to be enlarged? Do you not want to grow to all the fullness of Christ.  Would you not like your personal relationship with Christ to grow in all areas.  Would you not want to know Him in all things?

For according to scripture, it is ones personal relationship with Christ that is the arbitrator of all things. For scripture says “let the peace of Christ rule in your heart”. As I’m sure you know that word rule can also be translated “arbitrate” so scripture says “let the peace of Christ arbitrate in your heart”. If something upsets the peace of Christ He is bringing something to your attention. For the Spirit that dwells in you is there to teach you all things. For the things of God are Spiritually discerned, only the Spirit can correctly translate the written words to a Spiritual reality and apply them in a believers life.  

How do you know when your reading the word how to correctly divide the word of truth? Do you not go to God yourself and press into Him that He might show you a deeper truth in this or that area? So when you do, are you not having dealings with Christ “in you”.  For Christ came to bless all His people with Himself as an inward reality so for all eternity Christ in us would be our hope of glory. 

So wishing you an increase in Christ in all things.

The trouble is we can't rely on a feeling of peace entirely.....because there is a deceptive peace.....by which many will be destroyed.  We still need to test it by the Word and so again I want to stress that it is the word of God that needs to be preached/taught rather than a concept called a "relationship".  If we say, well if that's what your relationship with Christ is teaching you then it must be okay, that is misleading and fraught with peril.

 

1 hour ago, Not me said:

I’m sorry my well wishes bothered you so. 

Much love in Christ, Not me

In all seriousness, that is how I discerned it......in other words, another spirit.

[JTC]

1 hour ago, Heleadethme said:

A lot of error is due to the person's own heart and trying to justify their flesh, or the lens of their own limited experience, etc, etc.....however it still remains that the word of God is what needs to be taught, not an ephemeral, subjective relationship that is much wider open to anything goes.  Because....anything does NOT go.

I agree with you again. In the last 15 yrs I lost touch with the world, I didn't even have TV for a few yrs. I don't always realize just how wacky some people are but then say Christ told us to do this. I ignore such people but maybe I shouldn't. I usually only hear of this stuff on this board, otherwise I wouldn't even know.

Here's why I think this issue is so important. I already said the Internet is even effecting Catholics, mainly the young ones. Oh I know they will fight it but they're gonna lose this time. Just to illustrate how closed the CC once was I'll tell you what my catechism class was like. Bear in mind I knew this was wrong when I was in middle school. I thought I'd be able to ask questions in catechism. I was dismayed to find out the CC only allowed church approved questions. I didn't know if I should of laughed or cried. Back to this topic.

I can't agree with any church telling us what God allows unless they can back it up. That raises the question of how would they back it up. I decided what I believe almost 50yrs ago. I say the Bible because a person can say anything. We need a written word that hasn't changed since Jesus left. I used to have a confused cousin who never knew what to believe. He was the guy Jesus meant when He said these people are blown about by the wind. Although he disagreed with me he envied me for always having an answer. He once asked me how I can know. I said simple, I know what the Bible says.

I have to go some where. We always have to keep the Bible as our bedrock. Some people may be hearing from God but nothing should contradict scripture. As long as we are diligent to not let any group change the Bible we can always trust it. However, in the last 10 yrs I see why some people want a church to tell them. I'll be back.

[Not me]

28 minutes ago, Heleadethme said:

The trouble is we can't rely on a feeling of peace entirely.....because there is a deceptive peace.....by which many will be destroyed.  We still need to test it by the Word and so again I want to stress that it is the word of God that needs to be preached/taught rather than a concept called a "relationship".  If we say, well if that's what your relationship with Christ is teaching you then it must be okay, that is misleading and fraught with peril.

 

In all seriousness, that is how I discerned it......in other words, another spirit.

You may reply on whatever you wish, I will stick to scripture, and be a doer if it, and not a hearer only.  For scripture points to our personal relationship with Christ as the arbitrator of all things. For does not God deal with man through man’s spirit. Are we not told that it’s the Spirit that searches all things. And again the things of God are Spiritual discerned the carnal mind can not apprehend them? 

As far as you “discerning it” did you listen to, the “peace of Christ in your heart” or your human reasoning? 

Much love in Christ, Not me 

Edited May 11, 2018 by Not me

[Heleadethme]

28 minutes ago, JTC said:

I agree with you again. In the last 15 yrs I lost touch with the world, I didn't even have TV for a few yrs. I don't always realize just how wacky some people are but then say Christ told us to do this. I ignore such people but maybe I shouldn't. I usually only hear of this stuff on this board, otherwise I wouldn't even know.

Here's why I think this issue is so important. I already said the Internet is even effecting Catholics, mainly the young ones. Oh I know they will fight it but they're gonna lose this time. Just to illustrate how closed the CC once was I'll tell you what my catechism class was like. Bear in mind I knew this was wrong when I was in middle school. I thought I'd be able to ask questions in catechism. I was dismayed to find out the CC only allowed church approved questions. I didn't know if I should of laughed or cried. Back to this topic.

I can't agree with any church telling us what God allows unless they can back it up. That raises the question of how would they back it up. I decided what I believe almost 50yrs ago. I say the Bible because a person can say anything. We need a written word that hasn't changed since Jesus left. I used to have a confused cousin who never knew what to believe. He was the guy Jesus meant when He said these people are blown about by the wind. Although he disagreed with me he envied me for always having an answer. He once asked me how I can know. I said simple, I know what the Bible says.

I have to go some where. We always have to keep the Bible as our bedrock. Some people may be hearing from God but nothing should contradict scripture. As long as we are diligent to not let any group change the Bible we can always trust it. However, in the last 10 yrs I see why some people want a church to tell them. I'll be back.

Bless you.....and amen.

[Heleadethme]

30 minutes ago, Not me said:

You may reply on whatever you wish, I will stick to scripture, and be a doer if it, and not a hearer only.  For scripture points to our personal relationship with Christ as the arbitrator of all things. For does not God deal with man through man’s spirit. Are we not told that it’s the Spirit that searches all things. And again the things of God are Spiritual discerned the carnal mind can not apprehend them? 

As far as you “discerning it” did you listen to, the “peace of Christ in your heart” or your human reasoning? 

Much love in Christ, Not me 

That is what I spiritually discerned.  Maybe you are over-emphasizing that one scripture at the expense of others...?  It is but one truth and needs to be taken in balance with all the others.  I can only advise again to please be sure you test everything.