Heleadethme Posted May 26, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 15 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,371 Content Per Day: 1.36 Reputation: 3,268 Days Won: 5 Joined: 07/10/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted May 26, 2018 3 hours ago, enoob57 said: I don't think this is true because of what Jesus said here Luke 23:31 34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots. KJV Here I believe Jesus was referring to the Romans who knew not who they were crucifying. Whereas the Jews who He came to, preached to and did many many miracles for.. and especially the jewish leaders were accountable because they knew better, or should have, and deep in their hearts probably did....but they got rid of Jesus because of envy. Remember Jesus saying the blood of all the prophets would come upon them, and the Jews who chose Jesus over Barabbas even proclaimed to let His blood be on them and their children. We know they were not forgiven for rejecting and sending Christ to be crucified....because of what happened 70 years later, the destruction of the Jewish temple and homeland....they were judged, not forgiven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted May 26, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,158 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,444 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted May 26, 2018 1 hour ago, Heleadethme said: Here I believe Jesus was referring to the Romans who knew not who they were crucifying. Whereas the Jews who He came to, preached to and did many many miracles for.. and especially the jewish leaders were accountable because they knew better, or should have, and deep in their hearts probably did....but they got rid of Jesus because of envy. Remember Jesus saying the blood of all the prophets would come upon them, and the Jews who chose Jesus over Barabbas even proclaimed to let His blood be on them and their children. We know they were not forgiven for rejecting and sending Christ to be crucified....because of what happened 70 years later, the destruction of the Jewish temple and homeland....they were judged, not forgiven. That is pure conjecture on your part due to the fact that the Scribes and Pharisees were hurling insults at him while the Romans were gambling for His garment when He said this... unless the text allows one must consider The Lord died for all men and He did not qualify to whom He spoke... Later in the Scriptures it does qualify the request in theological terms Rom 5:18-21 18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. 19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. 20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: 21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord. KJV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heleadethme Posted May 27, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 15 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,371 Content Per Day: 1.36 Reputation: 3,268 Days Won: 5 Joined: 07/10/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted May 27, 2018 1 hour ago, enoob57 said: That is pure conjecture on your part due to the fact that the Scribes and Pharisees were hurling insults at him while the Romans were gambling for His garment when He said this... unless the text allows one must consider The Lord died for all men and He did not qualify to whom He spoke... Later in the Scriptures it does qualify the request in theological terms Rom 5:18-21 18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. 19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. 20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: 21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord. KJV Yes...but in spite of that all men aren't saved and forgiven unless they repent. Forgiveness is a topic that is deeper than most have given consideration to. For example, there is the issue of being forgiven in this life and what that means, and being forgiven in the next life and what that means. There is also the issue of Jesus forgiving His enemies as we are to forgive our enemies....and whether our enemies are forgiven by the Father...and what that means for this life or the next for them. Not saying that I have all understanding of the topic of forgiveness, but the Lord was gracious to give me a little light on it...enough to know that there is more I need to learn. I believe Jesus was specifically forgiving those who knew not what they were doing....it had to be the Romans who were in those moments crucifying Him..... because it wasn't to them that He had come and preached and done miracles for, and it wasn't them who had the Law and the prophets..the word of God. The Romans had no first hand knowledge of any Messiah, they had no knowledge as to who they were crucifying, they were just following orders and executing a criminal as far as they knew. And it wasn't to the Romans that He had pronounced judgment, but to the Jews. If the Jews had been forgiven why would they have been judged so terribly 70 years later? Anyway, just thought I would mention that tidbit, not wanting to start an argument. Maybe just give it some thought. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted May 27, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,158 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,444 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted May 27, 2018 3 hours ago, Heleadethme said: Yes...but in spite of that all men aren't saved and forgiven unless they repent. Forgiveness is a topic that is deeper than most have given consideration to. For example, there is the issue of being forgiven in this life and what that means, and being forgiven in the next life and what that means. There is also the issue of Jesus forgiving His enemies as we are to forgive our enemies....and whether our enemies are forgiven by the Father...and what that means for this life or the next for them. Not saying that I have all understanding of the topic of forgiveness, but the Lord was gracious to give me a little light on it...enough to know that there is more I need to learn. I believe Jesus was specifically forgiving those who knew not what they were doing....it had to be the Romans who were in those moments crucifying Him..... because it wasn't to them that He had come and preached and done miracles for, and it wasn't them who had the Law and the prophets..the word of God. The Romans had no first hand knowledge of any Messiah, they had no knowledge as to who they were crucifying, they were just following orders and executing a criminal as far as they knew. And it wasn't to the Romans that He had pronounced judgment, but to the Jews. If the Jews had been forgiven why would they have been judged so terribly 70 years later? Anyway, just thought I would mention that tidbit, not wanting to start an argument. Maybe just give it some thought. I am totally reliant upon the Scriptures to form my reasoning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heleadethme Posted May 27, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 15 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,371 Content Per Day: 1.36 Reputation: 3,268 Days Won: 5 Joined: 07/10/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted May 27, 2018 13 hours ago, enoob57 said: I am totally reliant upon the Scriptures to form my reasoning Amen, praise the Lord, me too..... well, reliant on the Lord actually because He is the one who gives us understanding of the scriptures. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted May 27, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,158 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,444 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted May 27, 2018 3 hours ago, Heleadethme said: Amen, praise the Lord, me too..... well, reliant on the Lord actually because He is the one who gives us understanding of the scriptures. The Scripture trumps s-Spiritual unction as we are to try the s/Spirits by The Scriptures to determine whether of God or not! The Holy Spirit within uses The Scriptures -and only The Scriptures- to guide us completely 2 Tim 3:15-17 15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. KJV within this one set of verses God discloses His only means to lead us into The Way, Truth and Life He has set forth for every man... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heleadethme Posted May 28, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 15 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,371 Content Per Day: 1.36 Reputation: 3,268 Days Won: 5 Joined: 07/10/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted May 28, 2018 14 hours ago, enoob57 said: The Scripture trumps s-Spiritual unction as we are to try the s/Spirits by The Scriptures to determine whether of God or not! The Holy Spirit within uses The Scriptures -and only The Scriptures- to guide us completely 2 Tim 3:15-17 15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. KJV within this one set of verses God discloses His only means to lead us into The Way, Truth and Life He has set forth for every man... I know brother....but scriptures without faith are dead letters....we do need to combine the scriptures with faith, ie, by the Holy Spirit. The Pharisees and learned teachers studied and analyzed scripture all the day long but still came up short and ended up handing their messiah over to be executed, knowing he was innocent of wrong-doing. Any lost person can read the scriptures but it takes the Holy Spirit to illuminate them and cause them to find entrance into a person's heart. It's the entrance of the word that gives light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted May 28, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,158 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,444 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted May 28, 2018 1 hour ago, Heleadethme said: I know brother....but scriptures without faith are dead letters....we do need to combine the scriptures with faith, ie, by the Holy Spirit. The Pharisees and learned teachers studied and analyzed scripture all the day long but still came up short and ended up handing their messiah over to be executed, knowing he was innocent of wrong-doing. Any lost person can read the scriptures but it takes the Holy Spirit to illuminate them and cause them to find entrance into a person's heart. It's the entrance of the word that gives light. my understanding is only in the regenerated place we are made able to hear and by that hearing Rom 10:17 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. KJV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4LdKHVCzRDj2 Posted May 28, 2018 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 69 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,453 Content Per Day: 0.53 Reputation: 1,453 Days Won: 6 Joined: 11/02/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/23/1991 Author Share Posted May 28, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Heleadethme said: I know brother....but scriptures without faith are dead letters.... That is why they could not correctly interpret the Scriptures... They just read and studied it, and denied the Spirit of it. "But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves." - James 1:22 Because without the Spirit no one can understand it, nor practice it. "He who does not love does not know God, for God is love." - 1 John 4:8 And while denying the Spirit, they will never be able to understand it. Because it comes by faith, not by trusting in the flesh and its senses and methods to interpret it. "But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." - 1 Corinthians 2:14 It is a sad thing to trust in the flesh. "Thus says the Lord: Cursed is the man who trusts in man And makes flesh his strength, Whose heart departs from the Lord." - Jeremiah 17:5 Edited May 28, 2018 by 4LdKHVCzRDj2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heleadethme Posted May 28, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 15 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,371 Content Per Day: 1.36 Reputation: 3,268 Days Won: 5 Joined: 07/10/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted May 28, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, enoob57 said: my understanding is only in the regenerated place we are made able to hear and by that hearing Rom 10:17 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. KJV Amen brother.....and also it says that we serve in the new way of the spirit, not the old way of the letter.....and that way the LORD gets the glory.....Christ, HIS Spirit. There are many who say things from the bible, but it is only like theoretical knowledge to them and they do not experience His Spirit in reality. The good news for these ones.....is that we can....by faith.....and actually need to. Jhn 14:26 “But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you. Edited May 28, 2018 by Heleadethme 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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