Book of Genesis

[Gus]

On 11 June 2018 at 7:29 PM, Not me said:

Genesis 1:2 (NASB)
The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters.

Question; 

It says “the earth was formless and void and darkness was over the surface of the deep”

Did God create it that way or did something happen to it? 

Much love in Christ, Not me

Is it possible that when God threw Satan and his angels out of heaven and to earth, it resulted in the destruction of a previous fully functioning world, pre-Adam? This could explain the extinction of dinosaurs and also as to why Satan was already on earth when Adam and Eve where created. If the earth was destroyed by violent impact (which most people assume was a meteor), the resulting dust and ash thrown up could block light, hence darkness over the deep. Let their be light may be removing this dark cloud.

There is after all no times scale given in this verse, so we read it as a quick event because it is just one verse, it could be millions of years?

[Guest shiloh357]

43 minutes ago, Gus said:

Is it possible that when God threw Satan and his angels out of heaven and to earth, it resulted in the destruction of a previous fully functioning world, pre-Adam? This could explain the extinction of dinosaurs and also as to why Satan was already on earth when Adam and Eve where created. If the earth was destroyed by violent impact (which most people assume was a meteor), the resulting dust and ash thrown up could block light, hence darkness over the deep. Let their be light may be removing this dark cloud.

There is after all no times scale given in this verse, so we read it as a quick event because it is just one verse, it could be millions of years?

The Hebrew grammatical structure in Genesis makes that impossible.  There was no pre-Adamite earth.

[Not me]

5 hours ago, Gus said:

Is it possible that when God threw Satan and his angels out of heaven and to earth, it resulted in the destruction of a previous fully functioning world, pre-Adam? This could explain the extinction of dinosaurs and also as to why Satan was already on earth when Adam and Eve where created. If the earth was destroyed by violent impact (which most people assume was a meteor), the resulting dust and ash thrown up could block light, hence darkness over the deep. Let their be light may be removing this dark cloud.

There is after all no times scale given in this verse, so we read it as a quick event because it is just one verse, it could be millions of years?

What you are putting forth is a version of the “gap” theory. Which has half a dozen different versions. Some hold true to this,  others to that. Which one is true? You need to ask God for yourself on that one. I know how I have put the puzzle pieces together, but I could be as wrong as the next guy. There are a great many lectures/debates on YouTube concerning young earth/old earth and evolution that are quite interesting. Don’t know if you know this, but they have found soft tissue in dinosaur bones. Those videos are quite interesting listening to people trying to explain how there still could be soft tissue after 65 million years. I have listened to quite a few of them. Always  fun to listen to. Enjoy your search. 

Much love in Christ, Not me 

Edited June 18, 2018 by Not me

[Gus]

27 minutes ago, Sojourner414 said:

Not only does Scripture not allow for that (per Shiloh's post), but why would God make a fully functioning world, just to nuke it by throwing Satan and party down to it? Not to mention, death didn't enter the world until Adam; to buy into this theory would mean that God brought death before Adam's disobedience in the garden did.

Was death not in the garden? God prevented Adam and Eve from eating the fruit that gives eternal life. Gen 3:22

By preventing them, presumably they grow old and die like everyone else, which is what happened.

[Guest shiloh357]

26 minutes ago, Gus said:

Was death not in the garden? God prevented Adam and Eve from eating the fruit that gives eternal life. Gen 3:22

By preventing them, presumably they grow old and die like everyone else, which is what happened.

God did not engineer death.  There was no death in the Garden until Adam disobeyed God.

[Gus]

5 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

God did not engineer death.  There was no death in the Garden until Adam disobeyed God.

So why was there a tree of life of which they where prevented to eat from as it would then give them eternal life?

Let's say that Adam and Eve where eternal before the fall. Would this also apply to animals and plants? Would fish, birds and insects live forever? Would plants never die? They can be eaten and Adam was to look after the garden so maybe it did not apply to animals and plants and therefore God could have destroyed previous animal life and plant?

Also, if Adam and Eve where eternal, but they where told to re-produce, would their off-spring not die? And what age would they stop getting older? Wouldn't the world be come overpopulated pretty quickly?

Was the death God was referring to a spiritual death. After all, he said they would surely die that day, but they didn't. They did however become aware of being naked, and then God killed animals to make them clothes.

[Gus]

6 hours ago, Sojourner414 said:

Not only does Scripture not allow for that (per Shiloh's post), but why would God make a fully functioning world, just to nuke it by throwing Satan and party down to it? Not to mention, death didn't enter the world until Adam; to buy into this theory would mean that God brought death before Adam's disobedience in the garden did.

Well he nuked a fully functioning world before (the flood), so why not previous to this?

[Gus]

On 16 June 2018 at 1:36 PM, Adstar said:

There is no problem with this.. the first light was simply that... Light..

The second lights where the Sun and the Moon.. They are called the geater and lesser Lights..

The sun and moon could be the first lights. When it comes to the 4th day, that seems to be about the stars, and the sun and moon are just being mentioned again to highlight that they separate day and night.

[Guest shiloh357]

12 minutes ago, Gus said:

So why was there a tree of life of which they where prevented to eat from as it would then give them eternal life?

They had eternal life before the Fall in the Garden.  The Bible doesn't tell us what the tree of life was for prior to the Fall. 

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Let's say that Adam and Eve where eternal before the fall. Would this also apply to animals and plants? Would fish, birds and insects live forever? Would plants never die? They can be eaten and Adam was to look after the garden so maybe it did not apply to animals and plants and therefore God could have destroyed previous animal life and plant?

Plant death and animal death are not the same thing.  Plants could be eaten.  But plants only have biological life.  They do not have the breath of life like humans and animals do.  So it is likely that only animals and humans would live forever.  But living forever and "eternal life"  are not the same thing.  

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Also, if Adam and Eve where eternal, but they where told to re-produce, would their off-spring not die? And what age would they stop getting older? Wouldn't the world be come overpopulated pretty quickly?

The earth would not have been over populated because prior to the flood of Noah, the earth actually had far more land than we do now.  Even today scientists tell us that are mountains and valleys and manmade structures under water.   That tells us that much of what is under water now was not under water at one time and there was far, far more land that man could live on.  The land mass we see today is just a fraction of what was above water during Adam's day.

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Was the death God was referring to a spiritual death. After all, he said they would surely die that day, but they didn't. They did however become aware of being naked, and then God killed animals to make them clothes.

Death was spiritual and physical.  Adam died spiritually immediately, but his body was in the "dying process" once he died spiritually.

[Gus]

3 hours ago, Sojourner414 said:

Because Scripture never says there was a fully functioning world before Genesis 1:2.

Not directly granted. But is there any evidence to suggest there was? Maybe...

The book of Genesis is not the beginning of God creating, as God must have created the angels prior to this and that was his focus and they witnessed God creating the earth Job 38:6-7

Before being a serpent, Satan was head of the angels in a previous Garden of Eden, which may not have been the same one Adam was in. Ezekiel 28:13

God will destroy this earth again, and there will another Eden, so it may be possible it did happen before. Ezekiel 36:35

In Revelation we are told Satan and his army of angels where thrown to the earth Rev 12: 7-9. But when did this happen? It doesn't seem to have happened anytime during the events of the bible, and as Satan was already in the Garden in a fallen sate, it must have happened before.

 

 

 

Edited June 18, 2018 by Gus