New Testament Inerrancy

[Still Alive]

At this point, I think I've said my piece and I need to invoke Titus 3:9

[Guest shiloh357]

3 hours ago, Still Alive said:

Can't argue with that, with the exception of things like Matt. 4:6 or 1 Cor 7:12.

Those verses are inspired.  They have to be.

[arachnogeek]

3 hours ago, Still Alive said:

My final authority is God, with whom I have a personal relationship through Jesus

How can you be certain of this when you don't view scriptures as infallible, inerrant and authoritative? 

You wouldn't have a clue about the character of God and his Son Jesus if it weren't for his Word, which you put into question. How can you be so sure that you have a personal relationship with God through Jesus if this very reality stems from the scriptures? 

You are contradicting yourself.

[Willa]

2Ti 3:15 ESV  and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

Please show me how the Old Testament is able to make me wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.  While they hoped for a Messiah, they had no idea He was to be named Jesus.  They had not yet known of His death and resurrection.  While it is hinted at and described there, such as in Isaiah and the Psalms, they could not yet put it together till the risen Christ opened the eyes of the men on the road to Emaeus. Only Jesus fully revealed the Father, doing and saying only what He saw the Father doing and saying.  

The New Testament is God Breathed.  Paul was referring to the letters in circulation among the churches at the time of his writing as well as the Old Testament scrolls.  True, the letters were not yet compiled into book form till close to 400 AD,  But the Gospels and  Peter's and Pauls epistles were accepted as Scripture during the first Century.  Some writings like Hebrews, and John's letters and the Revelation were less known than others depending on geography during the first 2 centuries.   Most of the New Testament was received as Holy Scripture during the 2nd century AD.    The Muratorian canon is a manuscript fragment that represents the oldest known list (or canon) of the New Testament. The beginning and ending of the MS is missing. The document is dated by most scholars about 170 AD. It was discovered in a library in Italy by Ludovico Antonio Muratori, a famous historian of the time. This list consists of the following:
- (Matthew and Mark were apparently named in the beginning of the fragment which is missing)
- Luke and John
- Acts
- all 13 of Paul's letters
- 1 and 2 John is assumed since the writer only names two letters of John
- Jude
- the Revelation of John                                                                                                                                                                                  (Early Church History 101)
Yes, you have free will to believe or not believe.  It translates into you have free will to be saved or to resist the call of the Holy Spirit or quench it so as to disbelieve.    You have free will to stand in defiance or to surrender and submit to the authority of Jesus Christ over your life through God's word in its original autographs.  

The literal translations are much more accurate than our interpretations due to their translators  extensive understanding of the Greek and Hebrew languages.  I can also read lexicons but have not the understanding of tenses and grammar of the ancient texts that I need to have a good understanding in context.  Some born again Christians have made Koine Greek and or Hebrew their sole life long study.  

[enoob57]

14 hours ago, Still Alive said:

And 2 Timothy is speaking of writings that pre-date the NT. But I still believe it applies.

Peter indicates Paul's letters as Scripture

2 Peter 3:15-16

15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
KJV
 

[Behold]

On 7/3/2018 at 2:26 PM, Andrew Restrepo said:

 

 

I've done some research but would love to hear from all of you. If (allegedly) the New Testament scriptures were not written then how does 2 Tim 3:16 refer to the epistles and the majority of the new testament? And if it doesn't refer to them, why must we listen to the epistles if they're not God-breathed?

 

Thanks everyone.

 

http://www.theroadtoemmaus.ca

The bible, is the revelation of God, and how He deals with man, from Adam - The Revelation.

So, the 2nd Tim verse you are talking about has to be viewed through the microscope,...through the LENS,  of the "foreknowledge" of God.

Which means....When Jesus took Paul aside, and personally  gave him 99% of the Doctrine regarding the Body of Christ, God already knew that Paul would be writing it, and later it would become what it is . = THE NEW TESTAMENT, and this is what matters MOST to the body of Christ, = Pauline Theology =  DOCTRINE.

So, this verse, 2nd Tim, you are talking about, is both proactive and reactive.......Its reactive, in the sense that at the time it was written, the "scriptures" was only the Torah, ... however, Peter, in 2nd Peter,  had already literally described Paul's epistles as equal to the Torah, and indeed "scriptures"..... YET, there was no bible literally finished at that time, except in the foreknowledge of God.   Which means, that the "scriptures" that are being referred to in 2nd Tim, are both the Torah, and the later to be realized New Testament, and specifically the doctrines that are given by Christ, thru Paul, to the Body Of Christ..

So, the answer is....:  Its Both.

 

 

<B><

Edited July 7, 2018 by Behold

[Still Alive]

On ‎7‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 5:36 PM, shiloh357 said:

Those verses are inspired.  They have to be.

The writer was inspired, yes.

I was thinking about our discussion over the weekend, and I get a feeling that we may agree far more than we disagree. My point is not that there is stuff in the bible that goes against God. Rather I believe some of it is literally the words of God (i.e. it is actually attributed to him) and words of men inspired by God. We have to be more careful with them because they include the particular person's sensibilities - inspired by God. It's why the four Gospels are not identical.

 

[Still Alive]

On ‎7‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 6:05 PM, arachnogeek said:

How can you be certain of this when you don't view scriptures as infallible, inerrant and authoritative? 

For the same reason I can be certain of my relationship with my wife, even if we were to lose our box of letters from when we were dating. i.e. personal relationship trumps written letters, though the letters are part of the foundation on which the relationship was originally built.

Edited July 9, 2018 by Still Alive

[Guest shiloh357]

4 minutes ago, Still Alive said:

The writer was inspired, yes.

I was thinking about our discussion over the weekend, and I get a feeling that we may agree far more than we disagree. My point is not that there is stuff in the bible that goes against God.

Nothing in the Bible goes against God.  No, we don't agree more than we disagree and this kind of statement proves it.

Quote

Rather I believe some of it is literally the words of God (i.e. it is actually attributed to him) and words of men inspired by God.

And who has the authority to differentiate between what is from God and what is actually from man?   

 

Quote

We have to be more careful with them because they include the particular person's sensibilities - inspired by God. It's why the four Gospels are not identical.

LOL, no that is not why the four Gospels are not identical.  

[Still Alive]

On ‎7‎/‎7‎/‎2018 at 5:00 AM, enoob57 said:

Peter indicates Paul's letters as Scripture

2 Peter 3:15-16

15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
KJV
 

I think the same exact thing could be said of the writings of C.S. Lewis.