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Judas Iscariot


warrior12

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and where does the Bible say that anyone who commits suicide is going to hell?

 

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Just reading through the following verses and asking if Judas knew after this conversation that he was doomed as the Lord spoke.   Could it be that after he saw that the Jesus was condemned, he remembered those words about being born.    

    John 3:16 is the Lord statement of salvation.    This conversation was live and as far I can see, it meant no repentance could have been possible as the fulfillment of scripture had to occur.   Maybe, I am contradicting myself with scripture here, but just trying to see what makes sense here.

Matthew 26  New King James Version (NKJV)

23  He answered and said,  “He who dipped  his  hand with Me in the dish will betray Me.  24  The Son of Man indeed goes just  as it is written of Him, but  woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed!  It would have been good for that man if he had not been born.”

25  Then Judas, who was betraying Him, answered and said, “Rabbi, is it I?”

He said to him,  “You have said it.”

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1 hour ago, other one said:

and where does the Bible say that anyone who commits suicide is going to hell?

 

The Bible views suicide as equal to murder, which is what it is—self-murder. God is the only one who is to decide when and how a person should die. We should say with the psalmist, “My times are in your hands” (Psalm 31:15). 

God is the giver of life. He gives, and He takes away (Job 1;21). 

Suicide, the taking of one’s own life, is ungodly because it rejects God’s gift of life. No man or woman should presume to take God’s authority upon themselves to end his or her own life.

 

How can/or does one glorify God in our body and in our spirit by murdering one's self? 

1 Cor. 6:19-20,   v.19, What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 
20, For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

Deut. 5:17, Thou shalt not kill. 

“He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall by My son. But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, MURDERERS, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” (Revelation 21:7-8)

 

Edited by HAZARD
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43 minutes ago, HAZARD said:

The Bible views suicide as equal to murder, which is what it is—self-murder. God is the only one who is to decide when and how a person should die. We should say with the psalmist, “My times are in your hands” (Psalm 31:15). 

God is the giver of life. He gives, and He takes away (Job 1;21). 

Suicide, the taking of one’s own life, is ungodly because it rejects God’s gift of life. No man or woman should presume to take God’s authority upon themselves to end his or her own life.

 

How can/or does one glorify God in our body and in our spirit by murdering one's self? 

1 Cor. 6:19-20,   v.19, What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 
20, For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

Deut. 5:17, Thou shalt not kill. 

 

 are people who take their own lives really in control mentally.....    Did Judas kill himself or did Satan drive him to do it....     what will Jesus think about it....    we can't know.  It's not good to put Jesus in a box concerning who does and does not avoid Hell..

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11 minutes ago, other one said:

 are people who take their own lives really in control mentally.....    Did Judas kill himself or did Satan drive him to do it....     what will Jesus think about it....    we can't know.

Mentally ill people will be judged accordingly. Judas showed no signs of mental illness. Satan can not force anyone to sin or kill themselves. Satan can tempt people to sin but as free moral agents we can and should resist sin. All Judas had to do was repent and he would have been forgiven just as Peter was forgiven for rejecting Christ before men.

James 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. 

 

you wrote;

"

It's not good to put Jesus in a box concerning who does and does not avoid Hell.."

Its even worse not to believe God's Word which clearly teaches that will full murder / self-murder is sin and UN-REPENTED MURDERS will end up in Hell.

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15 minutes ago, HAZARD said:

Mentally ill people will be judged accordingly. Judas showed no signs of mental illness. Satan can not force anyone to sin or kill themselves. Satan can tempt people to sin but as free moral agents we can and should resist sin. All Judas had to do was repent and he would have been forgiven just as Peter was forgiven for rejecting Christ before men.

James 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. 

 

you wrote;

 

 

Its even worse not to believe God's Word which clearly teaches that will full murder / self-murder is sin and UN-REPENTED MURDERS will end up in Hell.

I guess I've just been close to too many people who have taken their lives..   one has to question their sanity in most instances....   and I have never thought crazy people would necessarily go to hell.   anyway if you wish to think so. it's not a big thing to me...…   I'm just giving others something to think about.

 

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1 minute ago, other one said:

I guess I've just been close to too many people who have taken their lives..   one has to question their sanity in most instances....   and I have never thought crazy people would necessarily go to hell.   anyway if you wish to think so. it's not a big thing to me...…   I'm just giving others something to think about.

 

I never said mentally ill people who take their own lives will be sent to hell? I said, mentally ill people who take their lives will not go to Hell. God is merciful and just, we know that. 

Judas was mentally sound as were all the other disciples. Judas had the Holy Spirit and power like the other apostles and was a successful preacher and healer like them (Matt.10:1-20; mark 6:7-13)


He had his name written in Heaven, as proved by Acts 1:20 with Ps. 69:25-29. he fell from his apostleship by Transgression (Acts 1:25)
Judas was to have his habitation desolate and be blotted out of the book of the living (Ps. 69:25-28 with Acts 1:20), and he was to have another take his place in the Christian ministry and in the kingship over one of the tribes of Israel (Ps. 109:8) These passages were fulfilled in Judas according to Matt. 26:24; John 13:18; Acts 1:16-25.

In Matt. 10 we have the facts recorded that Judas as one of the "twelve disciples" received power over demons, sickness and disease and a call to preach the Gospel. Of the twelve (Including Judas) it is said that Christ gave them power and sent them forth, and commanded them to preach, and to heal the sick. Christ said to Judas and all the twelve, freely ye have received, freely give . . . . I send you forth as sheep . . . . it shall not be ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you (Matt. 10:1-20).

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is anyone who takes their lives really sane?   Is anyone who has just been entered by Satan really responsible for their actions...…    I would think one should have experienced that to be so sure..

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17 minutes ago, other one said:

is anyone who takes their lives really sane?   Is anyone who has just been entered by Satan really responsible for their actions...…    I would think one should have experienced that to be so sure..

 There is not one statement in the Bible that says Judas was insane, sick, or a devil from the beginning. He was a devil or an adversary against Christ toward the latter part of His ministry and this is all the bible does say about the question (John 6:70). He was once a saved man as were all the other apostles including Peter who denied Christ and cursed that he did not know Him.

Peter came to deny the Lord three times (Matt. 26:34). Peter was in danger of going to hell because Jesus had warned “Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels” (Mark 8:38). And Jesus also said, “But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven” (Matt. 10:33). If Peter had died in his sin, Jesus Christ would have been ashamed of him before all of Heaven and would have publicly denied him.

Christ said to Peterin, Matthew 16:23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

And the fact the that Jesus said to Peter “Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat… when thou art converted, strength thy brethren” (Luke 22:31-32) shows that Peter was no longer saved during his denial of Christ. The good news is that Peter had repented of his sin and was restored to Jesus Christ. Three times Peter denied Christ, so three times Christ asked Peter if He loved him (John 21:15-17), thus restoring him from his backsliding.

Like Peter, Judas also decided to backslide from faithful devotion to Jesus. Judas began to steal money from the group (John 12:6) and he even came to betray the Lord (Mk. 14:10). Jesus knew from the very beginning of Judas’ plot that he would betray Him (Jn. 6:64). But the Bible says that Judas was, at one point, a trusted friend of Jesus (Ps. 41:9; John 13:18). This explains why Judas kept the money (John 13:29).

If Jesus trusted Judas as a friend, Judas must have been trust worthy at that time. Betrayal implies, presupposes, or takes for granted former loyalty, friendship, or trust. If Judas was not formerly a loyal and trust friend of Jesus, he could not have betrayed Him. If Judas was not a loyal and trusted friend, who was a genuine follower of Him, He would not have chosen Him to preach the gospel, heal the sick, or cast out devils in the first place. Judas became a devil (John 6:70), but he was not always a devil, for Jesus asked, “How can Satan cast out Satan?” (Mark 3:23).

Scriptures plainly teach that Judas was a genuine disciple or follower of Christ who fell from his apostleship and lost his salvation through his sin. To teach otherwise is to simply misrepresent or misunderstand the Scriptures. Jesus Himself said that the Father gave Judas to Him but that He had lost him (John 17:12). Judas chose to be a disciple (Luke 9:23; 14:27), then Jesus chose him to be an apostle (Luke 6:13; John 6:70), but then Judas fell from his apostleship by his choice to transgress (Acts 1:25).

Judas lost both his salvation and apostleship through sin. The Holy Spirit through Luke records that Judas "By Transgression Fell" (Acts 1:15-25). If men would be as anxious to believe the Holy Spirit as they are to believe men, and if they would be as anxious to believe all Scriptures as they claim to believe some they would show some consistency and honesty regarding the whole Word of God. Judas not only had a moral fall but sin caused it. He was not always a "devil" and a "thief." He became both after he had been saved for some time. His weakness was the love of money and this caused his fall, "This he said, not that he cared for the poor; but because he was a thief, and had the bag, and bare what was put therein." (John 12:6), "And they were glad, and covenanted to give him money." (Luke 22:5). He had seen Christ escape many times and he no doubt thought the Lord would escape again and he would be the richer. it was not until the end of Christs ministry that Judas began to pilfer and to grow cold in his love of Christ. At the last supper he became united with the devil. He broke with Christ and sought opportunity to betray Him.


Judas was sorry afterwards for his betrayal "Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders, Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. And they said, What is that to us? see thou to that. Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. And they said, What is that to us? see thou to that." (Matt. 27:3-5). He could have been forgiven as much as any of the others who cursed, denied Christ, and fled like cowards in the test. But being of a disposition to do so, he brooded over his fall and yielded to temptation to commit suicide. Judas is a specific example of a New testament man who was once saved and in God's favour and grace but who by transgression fell, and because of his un repented sin went to hell.

 

Its simple to understand, Jesus would not pick sinners, pagans, murderers, to go and preach the gospel. Judas by transgression fell, His bishopric was GIVEN TO ANOTHER!

Judas had the Holy Spirit and power like the other apostles and was a successful preacher and healer like them (Matt.10:1-20; mark 6:7-13)
He had his name written in Heaven, as proved by Acts 1:20 with Ps. 69:25-29. he fell from his apostleship by Transgression (Acts 1:25)
Judas was to have his habitation desolate and be blotted out of the book of the living (Ps. 69:25-28 with Acts 1:20), and he was to have another take his place in the Christian ministry and in the kingship over one of the tribes of Israel (Ps. 109:8) These passages were fulfilled in Judas according to Matt. 26:24; John 13:18; Acts 1:16-25.


In Matt. 10 we have the facts recorded that Judas as one of the "twelve disciples" received power over demons, sickness and disease and a call to preach the Gospel. Of the twelve (Including Judas) it is said that Christ gave them power and sent them forth, and commanded them to preach, and to heal the sick. Christ said to Judas and all the twelve, freely ye have received, freely give . . . . I send you forth as sheep . . . . it shall not be ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you (Matt. 10:1-20).

Jesus prayed to the Father that He had lost non of the disciples, John 17:12, except Judas. One cannot lose someone or something one did not have to begin with.

Edited by HAZARD
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goodness, you sure seem to have a hot button over this so I'll let you have the last word....

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