Do You Really Love The Sinner Hate The Sin

[LadyKay]

Well it was a nice topic. Until it took a train ride into crazy town. Oh well. ?

[LadyKay]

12 minutes ago, maryjayne said:

I am happy to discuss on this forum my experiences being with Muslim women in their homes

That would be lovely.  ?

[Guest shiloh357]

53 minutes ago, Badjao33 said:

Actually, I'm the one providing scripture to try and defend my position and you are only providing opinion without support of any kind.

I am working from the Scripture you are providing.   I don't pit the Bible against itself.   What I am NOT doing is putting up verses and reading my own unbiblical ideas into them and demonstrating sloppy hermeneutics in the process.   That's all you are doing.

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It's pretty hard to have a Bible study or discuss Biblical topics when only one person brings a Bible to the table. When I asked you to provide scripture you made the claim that I'm promoting anti-Semitism and that you made your point and you don't have to explain it to me any further.

1. I am not studying the Bible with you. 

2. All you are doing is trying  to make it out like the only persecutors are the Jews and that is typical ante-Semitism where the Jews are always cast as the villains of the New Testament and given the anti-Semitism you have already expressed support for in the past, it is not surprising.

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 It seems you're the one with the weak argument here.  

No, I am not the one with the weak argument and I am also not the one trying to force the Bible to say what it doesn't say.  

 

[frienduff thaylorde]

1 hour ago, maryjayne said:

perhaps its more nuanced that that. When Jesus was with sinners, he didnt enter into their sin or sinful behaviour. He didnt condone their sinfulness. He went to them, and was in control of what He said and did, and when He could leave. He met with them with the clear purpose of preaching and coming alongside them without joining their world.

so the wording used maybe are the same for some scriptures, but the wider setting, the context of what was and what was going on, were in Jesus hands at all times. 

The often quoted bit about Him drinking wine is true, as is His first miracle. But there are no reports of Him getting drunk, and the first miracle was at a celebration his mother attended, and a marriage feast would have included all the wider family, of all age groups, and possibly a whole village, so it wasnt Him providing wine for a drunken orgy. Neither did He accompany anyone as the 'sober one' on drunken orgies they participated in.

In a similar way I would enter a Muslim house near where I used to live, at their invitation, and I would cover my head out of respect for their beliefs, but I wasnt then agreeing with their religion, and i was free to leave whenever i wished. I ate and drank with them, but would not describe it a friendship, it was a social nicety and a way of touching base with other cultures for us to understand one another better. We all benefited for this experience, and they knew i was a Christian.

I am happy to discuss on this forum my experiences being with Muslim women in their homes

 

Exactly .  everywhere I read in that bible that JESUS went to wherever or whoever had invited Him.   HE was always correcting .   always showing the way .

He rebuked even the man that had invited Him .    Folks ,   like I said THIS new way of evangelizing is anti JESUS of the BIBLE .

we don't just sip tea and talk about the price of it in china .   IF we go , JESUS IS taught .    Badjoa , I hope you reading this .

See , my problem is not at all with going out or to any group ,   ITS the new way they teach so many to do evanglising , THAT IS MY PROBLEM.

Paul taught Christ ,   peter did ,    the others did .     This new way of lets get along evangelism ,   REALLY STINKS and its smell has reached the nostrils of GOD

who is not in the least well pleased with it or those who do it .     We need to BIBLE UP and learn from those men , from Christ and follow the SPIRIT .

[Guest shiloh357]

24 minutes ago, Badjao33 said:

But you never provided any support. All you did was said I was wrong and needed to read the Bible without explaining why you feel that I'm wrong.  

That's right, because as I explained, we are not having a Bible study.

[frienduff thaylorde]

4 minutes ago, Badjao33 said:

But this is a Christian forum and we are having a discussion that requires an understanding of the Bible are we not? 

And every place JESUS entered or was invited too  .  HE ALWAYS rebuked , corrected , instructed .

Like I said , MY PROBLEM aint with going out or into houses .   ITS HOW we evangelize , OR I SHOULD SAY LACK THEREOF .

and YOU know exactly what I mean .     the hug and lets get along groups .     REAL STINKY deadly death evangelism . 

This love them to GOD under the seeker friendly , DID NOT WORK .    and why ,  cause no one corrected anything and leaven just hit the roof .

But insanity is , doing the same thing over , specting a different result .   this poor excuse of todays evangelism ,  only going to leaven EVERYTHING into one common

mindset , with the focus on good works and lets have unity for world peace and unity .  YOU REMEMBER  I  said this ,  I did warn .    I surely tried . 

[frienduff thaylorde]

2 hours ago, naominash said:

Jesus loves the church and calls the church his Bride.  From what standpoint can you claim to be a brother in the faith but insult other believers this way? 

Naomi.   you loved dear sister .    has anyone heard from one sheep lately  . 

[walla299]

3 hours ago, Archangel Thyos said:

I'm being persecuted

False. You're violating the TOS you agreed to when you signed up and you're being called out on it. It's called correction.

[Guest shiloh357]

7 hours ago, Badjao33 said:

But this is a Christian forum and we are having a discussion that requires an understanding of the Bible are we not? 

Look I am just working off of the Scriptures you presented.   I don't think the Bible is self-refuting so I am not going to try and find verses to refute the passages you bring up.  

Paul was heavily persecuted by Jews and Gentiles and you want skew the Scriptures that the Gentiles were tools of the Jews, that the Jews were the persecutors who simply influenced the Gentiles to persecute Paul. But that isn't what the Bible says and you are simply presenting what anti-Semites always do, always trying to make the Jews look like the villains of the New Testament and frankly, when you start in with your anti-Semitic drivel, you poison the conversation and demonstrate why an objective study of Scripture is impossible with you.

You have been sitting here in this thread trying to force ideas on to the Bible that are simply not there and I really don't take much that you have to say very seriously, anyway.  If  I did, I would spend the time and energy to actually have a decent conversation.   But I don't, so I wont. You're not worth the time.

[Guest shiloh357]

21 minutes ago, Badjao33 said:

That is what the Bible says though. It has nothing at all to do with anti-semitism. I don't see the Jews as villains at all as they were just doing their part in fulfilling prophesy. If that makes me an anti-semite in your eyes, then you would also have to include Jesus and Paul since they are they also have made the same claims. 

 What makes your claims so anti-Semitic is that you want to limit the blame to the Jews, as if it weren't for the Jews, the Gentiles would not have persecuted the Apostles.

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Jesus clearly predicted that it would be the Jews who persecute His disciples.

I don't deny that.  What I and anyone else who looks at the New Testament intelligently notice is that the Gospel is rejected by the world, not just by the Jews. It as true back then and it is true today.  And Gentiles persecute Christians today just like the did back then.  

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If you feel that I am in such error, then you should be able to explain why. You haven't even made an attempt in doing this. While you may feel that I'm not worth your time, what about the many other people who come across this thread may benefit from what you might have to say? If I'm in error, shouldn't it be corrected not only for my benefit, but also for those who may also be following this thread? 

I have already explained why you are in error and you're really the only person opposing me on that issue to any significant degree.  I have already made my case and I have rejected your sloppy, unskilled approach at grabbing selective parts of the Bible an imposing your false teaching upon them.  All of that has been addressed.   As far as trying to get into an extended debate with you on the Bible, you're not worth the time.

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The reason this is important is because many Christians take one or two verses out of the Bible and create entire doctrines out of it. In the case of Jesus saying "you will be hated because of me" or Paul saying "Don't be unequally yolked" they use verses like this to justify not befriending unbelievers or being in the company of sinners.

Which is also wrong and you don't know what you're talking about.  You simply sit here and assign values to other people you don't know.   You (despite what you might think) do not have any authority to make those judgements on anyone as if ANY Christian is using those phrases to avoid unbelievers.   

 

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Entire groups of lost people are being intentionally avoided by Christians because of this way of thinking. It's preventing the lost from hearing the gospel and seeing it in action and this needs to change. 

Since you are not, as you have admitted, leading anyone to the Lord in your "ministry" (as you call it), I don't feel anyone should be obliged to listen to you what needs to change.   When you actually start making disciples and bearing REAL fruit and founding churches and training other ministers to go out and make disciples, you might have something to say.