When do Revelations seals open

[iamlamad]

8 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

No, peace and safety is when Israel is living without walls, gates and bars in the first 3.5 years. Ez 38 and sudden destruction will begin at the A of D. Ez 39 will end the 70th week.

Ez 38:11 You will say, "I will invade a land of unwalled villages; I will attack a peaceful and unsuspecting people--all of them living without walls and without gates and bars.

1 Thess 5:3 While people are saying, "Peace and safety," destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.

Notice the word "escape" here below. This is referring to the latter 3.5 years, in which earthly Israel escapes into the wilderness for the latter 3.5 years in Rev 12:6, 14. It's clear to me that the sudden destruction occurs at the A of D. It's actually quite simple.

Luke 21:36 Be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man."

1 Thess 5:3 While people are saying, "Peace and safety," destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.

The Day of the Lord coming like a thief in 1 Thess 5:2 is referring to the A of D, and the latter 3.5 years. Paul later says in his letter in 2 Thess 2:2 that the Day of the Lord comes when the Antichrist sits in the temple, via 2 Thess 2:4

1Th 5:2 for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night.

2Th 2:2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come.

The word "revealed" is actually mentioned three times in this chapter. Paul shows us that the restrainer which is the church will be removed prior to the antichrist sitting in the temple. The Day of the Lord will begin at the A of D.

2 Thess 2:3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness a is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 

2 Thess 2:6And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time.

2 Thess 2:7For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way.

2 Thess 2:8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming. 

I got it! I finally figured out how your theories are formed: you find two exact words and IMAGINE they are talking about the same thing! You find "escape" in one verse and "escape" in another and imagine they are talking about the very same escape - with NO REGARD to timing whatsoever!

Paul does tell of an escape from sudden destruction, but his escape will be at the time of the rapture - and Paul shows us the timing will be just before the Day of the Lord. The rapture will trigger the day of the Lord.  The rapture is NOT the Day of the Lord, nor is the Day of the Lord the rapture: they are two distinct events  - but the rapture will come first and be the trigger for the Day. 

Because of what Luke wrote, when Jerusalem was surrounded by Titus's armies, and then he withdrew, all the Christians ESCAPED from Jerusalem. And just as Jesus predicted, Titus came back and Jerusalem was destroyed. 

The Day of the Lord coming like a thief in 1 Thess 5:2 is referring to the A of D, and the latter 3.5 years.  Can you PROVE this?

Paul later says in his letter in 2 Thess 2:2 that the Day of the Lord comes when the Antichrist sits in the temple  We have a choice here to take a "one liner" that is ambiguous at its best  - because of differences in the Greek manuscripts and because Paul left out words that were added by the translators - OR  - we can turn to Revelation which gives us a much DEEPER look. 

Can we determine approximately in Revelation where the man of sin is revealed?  Yes, because that is where the fleeing will begin.  The abomination then (NOT seen by John so not recorded) will be a second or two  before 12:6.  I believe the 7th trumpet marks the A D time. 

But we see the DAY of the Lord begins at the 6th seal, before the book can even be opened to reveal the trumpets.  in other words, the Greek word for "the Day of the Lord has COME" can only mean IS PRESENT.  It does not have to mean "just started." And that is exactly what Revelation shows us: if someone sees the abomination event - the DAy of the Lord IS PRESENT - has already started. 

If you had written:  "the Day of the Lord is present when the Antichrist sits in the temple " it would fit with what Revelation shows us. 

You form your doctrine here from a very ambiguous verse where the word in question was added by translators! I form my doctrine from Revelation, where these things are shown from chapter 6 to chapter 12 - a MUCH deeper description of these events. 

[Heb 13:8]

11 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Then finally we agree on something! Hallelujah! I believe in miracles. I believe as soon as Satan is cast down, he will possess the man of sin. And at that moment the man of sin will turn into the Antichrist Beast. 

Iam, why then do you believe the red dragon is referring to Herod. You're always going back and forth from Herod to the 70th week, it's like you can't make up your mind. Rev 12:1-5 sign came to pass on 9/23/17 and the events in the sign ARE ALL FUTURE!! The sign has nothing to do with Herod.

[Heb 13:8]

10 hours ago, iamlamad said:

I got it! I finally figured out how your theories are formed: you find two exact words and IMAGINE they are talking about the same thing! You find "escape" in one verse and "escape" in another and imagine they are talking about the very same escape - with NO REGARD to timing whatsoever!

Well, words are important when discussing exegesis.

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Paul does tell of an escape from sudden destruction, but his escape will be at the time of the rapture

No, the word escape is in relation to Rev 12:6, 14 when they actually do escape into the wilderness in the latter 3.5 years. Keep it simple.

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Because of what Luke wrote, when Jerusalem was surrounded by Titus's armies, and then he withdrew, all the Christians ESCAPED from Jerusalem. And just as Jesus predicted, Titus came back and Jerusalem was destroyed.

Matt 24:15-21 and Luke 21:20-24 are parallel scriptures and is speaking of future events. Remember, commentaries in the 17 1800's were not aware of Rev 12:1-5 in the heavens on 9/23/17. So their interpretation is flawed. Luke 21:8 was written 2000 years ago..

Luke 21:8 He replied: "Watch out that you are not deceived. For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am he,' and, 'The time is near.' Do not follow them.

[iamlamad]

23 minutes ago, Heb 13:8 said:

Iam, why then do you believe the red dragon is referring to Herod. You're always going back and forth from Herod to the 70th week, it's like you can't make up your mind. Rev 12:1-5 sign came to pass on 9/23/17 and the events in the sign ARE ALL FUTURE!! The sign has nothing to do with Herod.

I have never said such a thing. Do you really READ my posts?  Or is your mind only thinking what your next answer will be. 

The red Dragon is SATAN. Period and end of story.  I will tell you again, Jesus, the head of the church told me  - I heard his voice and his words - that He, Jesus CHOSE to show John what the Dragon DID when He was born. He said those first five verses were a "history lesson" for John. 

What these verses are telling us is that it was SATAN pushing Herod to murder all those kids in an attempt to kill Jesus. 

I don't go back and forth between anything. It is your imagination - and I can tell from your posts you have a very good one.  It seems you disagree with the Head of the church. I will always choose HIS answer. It makes more sense anyway. 

HOWEVER: is it possible God has a second meaning for this verse? I will not say it is impossible. 

Forever - or since Virgo was put in her place,  she was to represent Mary - the mother of our Lord - the virgin who gave birth.  You wish to change the very meaning of Virgo!  Then there is the woman from whom Virgo came: ISRAEL.  Jesus was born from the nation of ISRAEL.  All this passage is telling us is that Satan had a plan to kill Jesus shortly after Jesus was born. We know now He used King Herod in his attempt. It all fits what is written to a "T."

[iamlamad]

Just now, Heb 13:8 said:

Lamad said, "Paul does tell of an escape from sudden destruction, but his escape will be at the time of the rapture"

No, the word escape is in relation to Rev 12:6, 14 when they actually do escape into the wilderness in the latter 3.5 years. Keep it simple.

³ For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.  

Those that get raptured DO escape.  See? Paul DOES tell of an escape. It is a simple fact: this is not the same "escape" of those that flee.  It may well be the same word, but the CONTEXT is different. It is always a mistake to pull a verse from its context. 

[Heb 13:8]

4 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

What these verses are telling us is that it was SATAN pushing Herod to murder all those kids in an attempt to kill Jesus.

You've mentioned Herod and Jesus birth multiple times when discussing Rev 12:1-5. You're doing it now, now you're going back to Herod.

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Then finally we agree on something! Hallelujah! I believe in miracles. I believe as soon as Satan is cast down, he will possess the man of sin. And at that moment the man of sin will turn into the Antichrist Beast. 

Are you not referring to the 70th week here????????? Back and forth we go.....................

 

[Heb 13:8]

22 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

³ For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.  

Those that get raptured DO escape.  See? Paul DOES tell of an escape. It is a simple fact: this is not the same "escape" of those that flee.  It may well be the same word, but the CONTEXT is different. It is always a mistake to pull a verse from its context. 

Thess says these people do NOT escape, which are non believing Gentiles that will not escape the wrath of God in the last 3.5 years.

Rev 9:6 During those days people will seek death but will not find it; they will long to die, but death will elude them.

[iamlamad]

Just now, Heb 13:8 said:

Thess says these people do NOT escape, which are non believing Gentiles that will not escape the wrath of God in the last 3.5 years.

Rev 9:6 During those days people will seek death but will not find it; they will long to die, but death will elude them.

Neither will they escape the "sudden destruction" earthquake at the 6th seal. 

[Heb 13:8]

1 minute ago, iamlamad said:

Neither will they escape the "sudden destruction" earthquake at the 6th seal. 

Yup, and this earthquake is near the A of D when the two witnesses are killed, Rev 11:13.

[iamlamad]

40 minutes ago, Heb 13:8 said:

You've mentioned Herod and Jesus birth multiple times when discussing Rev 12:1-5. You're doing it now, now you're going back to Herod.

Are you not referring to the 70th week here????????? Back and forth we go.....................

 

Your preconceived glasses and wild theories cause what I write to go right over your head. Get this straight this time:

The 70th week is "the tribulation" and it will begin at the 7th seal, and end at the 7th vial, with the midpoint marked by the 7th trumpet. God it? let is sink in. Believe it for it is truth.  The 0th week goes from chapter 8 to chapter 16. It is all 70th week except for parentheses. 

Now, I assume you know ("know" includes understanding) what a parenthesis is?  John's chronology is NOT FOUND in his parentheses. Don't look for any chronology in parentheses. 

Chapters 11, 12, 13 (and even 14) are MIDPOINT chapters - midpoint to the 70th week. 

Therefore chapter 12 is a midpoint chapter. But the first 5 verses are a parenthesis and a history lesson - a look back into the past.) I cannot help it if john wrote it in a midpoint chapter. It is what it is.  You imagine these first five verses refer to something today. I don't. So we know we disagree and should not have to discuss them again. You are here to push your theory. I get that. 

I think you have rearranged Revelation so much you don't recognize where "the 70th week" is found. Yes, of course the Midpoint is inside the 70th week. 

Edited October 12, 2018 by iamlamad