What exactly will be seen during the Rapture

[iamlamad]

2 hours ago, ARGOSY said:

Exactly. Concurrence occurs in some chapters of Revelation. So there is no overriding principle that all the chapters unfold consecutively if you admit that some occur concurrently.

Again I STRONGLY disagree. It is impossible to write of concurrent events consecutively: one must be written first, then another, etc.  This concurrency is ONLY for these 5 events that are written of in chapters 11 -  13.  We don't read of them again in chapter 12, or chapter 15. But they are all counting down while the events of chapters 14 and 15 and 16 are taking place. Since the week ends at the the vial, several of these counts will end in chapter 16. But the beast will not be caught during the 70th wee. He is only caught when Jesus returns - some unknown time AFTER the week has ended. 

The overriding principle is that John wrote the book with perfect chronology, as far as that is possible.

[iamlamad]

2 hours ago, ARGOSY said:

Exactly. Which is concurrent to the sixth seal which also describes the day of the Lord. 

You are STILL wrong! The day BEGINS at the 6th seal, right where John TELLS US it begins. However, it is not just a one 24 hour period of time. THE DAY is still going on at the battle of Armageddon. 

The 6th seal is opened before the 70th week begins. The 7th trumpet marks the midpoint. Therefore, there will be over 3 1/2 years between the opening of the 6th seal and the sounding of the 7th trumpet.

[iamlamad]

3 hours ago, n2thelight said:

If He doesn't come at the 7th trump when tell is the 2nd coming (although rapturist wanna make it 3)?

For real though, it's real easy now,do a word search on the Day of the Lord,you should see ,(but then again God does blind people for their own good )in every instance it's the same exact thing told from a different prospective. 

Christ feet will touch the Mount of Olives at His 2nd coming which happens at the 7th trump, it's no way around that,none!!

His second coming is pretrib FOR His church, only He will stop in the air and in the clouds and then return to Heaven, where He will spend the entire 70th week. ( Just for you, He will come the 3rd time as shown in Rev. 19.)

His coming to the air, according to Paul, we be just a moment before the start of the DAY, telling me that the rapture will be the trigger for the start of the Day.  

There are MANY old Testament verses on THE DAY. NONE of them sound like the rapture. Yet, people still imagine that the rapture happens during THE DAY. They are mistaken.  ON a word search, we find the DAY starts at the 6th seal. 

WRONG! He will touch down at His 3rd coming not His second. Classical pretrib cannot count, or are just not willing to count. 

Sorry, His feet will touch down AFTER the battle of ARmageddon - Rev. 19. You are ad libbing a coming at the 7th trumpet when there IS NONE. Do you wish to make His coming in chapter 19 His 4th coming? 

[n2thelight]

18 minutes ago, Sojourner414 said:

The part where you stopped making sense, which was pretty early on.

Well that's your problem, guess scripture doesn't make sense to you 

[Adstar]

On 11/2/2018 at 3:27 AM, iamlamad said:

You are partly right: the rapture WILL happen at the last trump: Paul said as much.  But it WILL be pretrib. 

I would guess you cannot even pinpoint where "the trib" is in Revelation - yet you think you know the rapture cannot be pretrib. I will further guess you don't know where the rapture will be in Revelation either.

Did you know read how God gives us the desires of our hearts? If someone is determined to see the Beast, by getting left behind - I think God will honor their faith. They will be left behind. 

When the rapture happens NO ONE who is saved will be left behind..  Belief in rapture is not a prerequisite for taking part in it.. 

The Last Trumpet in the Book of Revelation is the 7th trumpet..

Matthew 24 gives details of the day of the return of the LORD Jesus Christ on that day a trumpet will be sounded:::

(Matthew 24:29-31) "¶ Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: {30} And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. {31} And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

So yes we are agreed the Last trumpet will be the time of the rapture.. And Matthew 24 reveals a trumpet blast on the day of the return of our LORD Jesus.. So if the last trumpet happens before the tribulation and before the second coming of the LORD Jesus then a pre-tribulation rapture believer must then declare that Matthew 24 verse 31 is a lie because there cannot be another trumpet blast after the final trumpet blast... 

The pre-tribulation rapture doctrine is a delusion that requires people to deny scripture.. To deny words directly from the mouth of Jesus Himself..

[n2thelight]

1 hour ago, Adstar said:

When the rapture happens NO ONE who is saved will be left behind..  Belief in rapture is not a prerequisite for taking part in it.. 

The Last Trumpet in the Book of Revelation is the 7th trumpet..

Matthew 24 gives details of the day of the return of the LORD Jesus Christ on that day a trumpet will be sounded:::

(Matthew 24:29-31) "¶ Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: {30} And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. {31} And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

So yes we are agreed the Last trumpet will be the time of the rapture.. And Matthew 24 reveals a trumpet blast on the day of the return of our LORD Jesus.. So if the last trumpet happens before the tribulation and before the second coming of the LORD Jesus then a pre-tribulation rapture believer must then declare that Matthew 24 verse 31 is a lie because there cannot be another trumpet blast after the final trumpet blast... 

The pre-tribulation rapture doctrine is a delusion that requires people to deny scripture.. To deny words directly from the mouth of Jesus Himself..

They try and get around that by saying Matt 24 was written to just the Jews. 

 

[Adstar]

Just now, n2thelight said:

They try and get around that by saying Matt 24 was written to just the Jews. 

 

Well yeah people need to do a lot of twisting of Scripture to make it fit their desired escapist doctrine..

[iamlamad]

49 minutes ago, Adstar said:

Well yeah people need to do a lot of twisting of Scripture to make it fit their desired escapist doctrine..

Is it twisting if Jesus WAS talking to Jews about the end of THEIR age? 

For example, what is the "abomination of desolation" that Jesus spoke of a part of?  Or what period of time is it found inside of?

[iamlamad]

2 hours ago, Adstar said:

When the rapture happens NO ONE who is saved will be left behind..  Belief in rapture is not a prerequisite for taking part in it.. 

The Last Trumpet in the Book of Revelation is the 7th trumpet..

Matthew 24 gives details of the day of the return of the LORD Jesus Christ on that day a trumpet will be sounded:::

(Matthew 24:29-31) "¶ Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: {30} And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. {31} And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

So yes we are agreed the Last trumpet will be the time of the rapture.. And Matthew 24 reveals a trumpet blast on the day of the return of our LORD Jesus.. So if the last trumpet happens before the tribulation and before the second coming of the LORD Jesus then a pre-tribulation rapture believer must then declare that Matthew 24 verse 31 is a lie because there cannot be another trumpet blast after the final trumpet blast... 

The pre-tribulation rapture doctrine is a delusion that requires people to deny scripture.. To deny words directly from the mouth of Jesus Himself..

1 Thes. 4 & 5 seem pretty clear: Jesus will descend to the clouds and the church will be caught up.  Paul also tells us it will be at "the last trump." Since we don't believe God will send angels to collect all trumpets so their can never be another trumpet blast, then we must qualify what Paul said. His meaning is, the last of a CERTAIN SERIES of trumpets - without much doubt, the series of the Feast of Trumpets. 

The delusion is that a gathering that gathers from heaven and gathers after the days of tribulation is the same gathering as Paul's rapture gathering.

[ARGOSY]

6 hours ago, iamlamad said:

I don't buy your "therefore." OF COURSE the seals come before the trumpets. You still don't get it: the seals are sealing a BOOK. The contents of the book is the 70th week of Daniel: 7 trumpets followed by 7 vials and plagues.

I was VERY specific on what I said was concurrent: the 5 events that will start near the midpoint and go to the end of the week. These five things are ALL that is concurrent. No, I'll take that back: During the last half of the week, Satan's wrath and God's wrath are concurrent.

Other than these five concurrent events, it is SEQUENCE. I cannot find any place John breaks from sequence. 

And ANY theory that must rearrange Revelation as written will be proven wrong. You can take that to the bank. 

For example, some people want to say that the 7th trumpet happens during the 6th seal. We can know that is bogus and is in error. It is rearranging the book.

Aah so you choose which chapters are concurrent and which chapters are consecutive based on your view of the content of those chapters. But I can't do that? 

Then you take the high road, claiming I am "re-arranging" Revelation, when you are doing the same thing by choosing which chapters are concurrent and not consecutive.