Woman of Revelation 12

[dhchristian]

Just now, R. Hartono said:

How could the apostate church produces offspring ?

The Laodicean church is the last church age. She goes into apostacy, and we are seeing this happen today, But there are true Christians coming out of her, not wanting to partake in her Apostacy. These are her offspring. The Remnant if you will that will enter the new dispensation of the Millennial reign of Christ. They are the ones who are zealously repenting. 

[dhchristian]

Just now, R. Hartono said:

There is no way God will save that woman from the face of the serpent if she is the apostate church. the foolish virgins shall be left.

 The church is no longer a virgin, but a Harlot, hence the use of the GYNE to describe this woman. The single greatest sign of Jesus second coming is the Apostacy of the church. This is what rev. 12 sign is all about, and why it is a great wonder. This is happening to the church even as we speak. as the Laodicean church is in travail. Do You want to be an overcomer? The first step is admitting you are a Laodicean. This is Hard because no one wants to be a member of this worst church, but we all are, like it or not, Including those who are living in poverty, Although for them to overcome is far easier than the rich preachers in this country. 

The Parable of the ten virgins applies to the Kingdom of heaven. If the Woman is no longer a virgin, then does this apply to the church? Who then are the ten virgins? Is not a child of a harlot a virgin?

 

[R. Hartono]

25 minutes ago, dhchristian said:

The Laodicean church is the last church age.

Lord says to the church of Thyatira they will rule over the nations (Millennium) if they overcometh (overcomer) so they overcomer is not only Laodicean.   

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

He didnt say this to Laodicean.

So the 7 churches of Revelation is the picture of whole Christianity.

All the 7 churches represents the end time christianity.

Jesus didnt say there will certainly be true Christians coming out of Laodicean church either.

Edited July 3, 2019 by R. Hartono

[R. Hartono]

41 minutes ago, dhchristian said:

 Who then are the ten virgins? Is not a child of a harlot a virgin?

 

The ten virgins is the picture of end times church, the wise with oil and the foolish without oil.

[dhchristian]

1 hour ago, R. Hartono said:

Lord says to the church of Thyatira they will rule over the nations (Millennium) if they overcometh (overcomer) so they overcomer is not only Laodicean.   

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

He didnt say this to Laodicean.

So the 7 churches of Revelation is the picture of whole Christianity.

All the 7 churches represents the end time christianity.

Jesus didnt say there will certainly be true Christians coming out of Laodicean church either.

Very true, I have Not given much thought to this aspect, whether the seven churches all remain? But I do know they all have had overcomers. And it is appropriate that the church that had to deal with Jezebel is the one that will rule with a rod of Iron. Although it could be a reference to those now deceased that overcame the from this church age? I will get back with you on this. Need to pray about it. 

As for the woman and the unwise virgins and their fate.... And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. (Rev 17:5)

 

[simplejeff]

The so-called 'church' won't rule,  and not with a rod of iron righteously (in the past through today perhaps, its own people,  it did, unrighteously).

There's actually no mention of "the church" in Hebrews nor in the Apocalypse.   Note instead "Ekklesia" assembly, yes.  This is much much different than "the church".

[simplejeff]

2 hours ago, dhchristian said:

The church is no longer a virgin, but a Harlot, hence the use of the GYNE to describe this woman. The single greatest sign of Jesus second coming is the Apostacy of the church.

No.

Yahushua was expected to return by the Apostles and the Ekklesia in the first and second century,  and every century since then.

He taught the Apostles and the disciples in the first century,   and they believed Him and followed Him and expected Him to return in their own lifetime,  and He did not say otherwise to them, ever.

 

[dhchristian]

1 hour ago, R. Hartono said:

All the 7 churches represents the end time christianity.

Here is what the LORD showed me. When did the church become a Harlot? The Harlot church has always existed side by side with the true church, But a clear separation occurred during the time of the church of Thyatira. This separation is known as the inquisition., which led even into the age of Sardis, The reformation church. 

 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration. (Rev 17:6)

Harlotry occurred in Israel all the way back to the Golden calf, But there was always Remnant from which to raise up a standard and revive Israel. Whether that was Elijah who dealt with the real Jezebel, or Samuel who replaced the sons of Eli in the Priesthood, Or Josiah the king who destroyed the places of Harlotry in the land of Israel. 

The Harlot has always been there, But it is in this Laodicean Age that the Falling away occurs, just like the divorce of Israel occurred when Israel rejected their Messiah. The same can be said of the true church, the overcomers of each age.  There is only one church, and seven ages, Just like there was only one nation of Israel, that went through seven stages. From the time of exodus, to the time of Joshua, the time of the Judges, the time of the kings, the time of exile, the time of restoration, the time of darkness leading up to Jesus. The church ages mark a problem, and solution to overcome the problem.  That is where your misunderstanding comes from. We, all of us are living in the Laodicean age.  You see seven churches, but in reality there is only one Body of Christ. 

 

[iamlamad]

14 hours ago, dhchristian said:

CHAPTER 22: SELF-DECEPTION AND HOW TO AVOID IT
Of all forms of deception, self-deception is the most deadly, and of all deceived persons the self-deceived are the least likely to discover the fraud.

The reason for this is simple. When a man is deceived by another he is deceived against his will. He is contending against an adversary and is temporarily the victim of the other’s guile. Since he expects his foe to take advantage of him he is watchful and quick to suspect trickery. Under such circumstances it is possible to be deceived sometimes and for a short while, but because the victim is resisting he may break out of the trap and escape before too long.

With the self-deceived it is quite different. He is his own enemy and is working a fraud upon himself. He wants to believe the lie and is psychologically conditioned to do so. He does not resist the deceit but collaborates with it against himself. There is no struggle, because the victim surrenders before the fight begins. He enjoys being deceived.

It is altogether possible to practice fraud upon our own souls and go deceived to judgment. “If a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing,” said Paul, “he deceiveth himself.” With this agrees the inspired James: “If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man’s religion is vain.”
The farther we push into the sanctuary the greater becomes the danger of selfdeception. The deeply religious man is far more vulnerable than the easygoing fellow who takes his religion lightly. This latter may be deceived but he is not likely to be self-deceived.

Under the pressure of deep spiritual concern, and before his heart has been wholly conquered by the Spirit of God, a man may be driven to try every dodge to save face and preserve a semblance of his old independence. This is always dangerous and if persisted in may prove calamitous.

The fallen heart is by nature idolatrous. There appears to be no limit to which some of us will go to save our idol, while at the same time telling ourselves eagerly that we are trusting in Christ alone. It takes a violent act of renunciation to deliver us from the hidden idol, and since very few modern Christians understand that such an act is necessary, and only a small number of those who know are willing to do, it follows that relatively few professors of the Christian faith these days have ever experienced the painful act of renunciation that frees the heart from idolatry

The only reason you write such things is that you don't believe it was really Jesus, the head of the church, that spoke to me. And the reason you can't believe that is because you already had preconceived ideas of what the Author's intent was in those scriptures.  In other words, you think you know. The truth is, you really don't know. That is why we disagree.

What should be the correct response when a brother or sister says "God told me...." We should search the scriptures and see if what is being said could be the truth and agrees with the written word of God. However, herein lies a danger: someone can be SO SURE they have the truth of scripture that when the real truth comes, they simply won't believe it. Preconceived theories can be very strong and very hard to dislodge! For example, try telling a JW their theories are wrong!

I do thank you for your concern!

Edited July 3, 2019 by iamlamad

[iamlamad]

2 minutes ago, dhchristian said:

Here is what the LORD showed me. When did the church become a Harlot? The Harlot church has always existed side by side with the true church, But a clear separation occurred during the time of the church of Thyatira. This separation is known as the inquisition., which led even into the age of Sardis, The reformation church. 

 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration. (Rev 17:6)

Harlotry occurred in Israel all the way back to the Golden calf, But there was always Remnant from which to raise up a standard and revive Israel. Whether that was Elijah who dealt with the real Jezebel, or Samuel who replaced the sons of Eli in the Priesthood, Or Josiah the king who destroyed the places of Harlotry in the land of Israel. 

The Harlot has always been there, But it is in this Laodicean Age that the Falling away occurs, just like the divorce of Israel occurred when Israel rejected their Messiah. The same can be said of the true church, the overcomers of each age.  There is only one church, and seven ages, Just like there was only one nation of Israel, that went through seven stages. From the time of exodus, to the time of Joshua, the time of the Judges, the time of the kings, the time of exile, the time of restoration, the time of darkness leading up to Jesus. The church ages mark a problem, and solution to overcome the problem.  That is where your misunderstanding comes from. We, all of us are living in the Laodicean age.  You see seven churches, but in reality there is only one Body of Christ.

I don't think these 7 churches represent ages. If they did, some reader could say "I am living in this age" and so dismiss all the rest! I think the truth is, any reader in any age could read and see what pertains to him or her and so repent and change.