9 Ways People are Bullied in Church

[choir loft]

On 11/29/2018 at 10:22 AM, Scott Free said:

Thank you for that insight. One question. What does the Babylonian System have to do with Jesus Christ? It is revealed as an organization that dominates international commerce and banking. 

The context of the post would suggest something other than Biblical references.

That being said, Babylonian influence upon Judaism, Messianic Judaism of Jesus' day & the institutionalized Christian religion was considerable.  

Prior to the civil war that tore the old kingdom of Israel apart, Hebrews lived in observance of Mosaic Law (more or less).

Following the civil war instigated by King Solomon's idiot son Rehoboam, the two kingdoms gradually diluted their religious observance and debauched their moral character.   God sent numerous prophets and teachers as well as invading armies to get their attention, but in the end the people resisted with all their will.  The northern kingdom of Israel was eventually ripped to shreds by the Assyrians and the southern kingdom of Judah was taken captive to Babylon for seventy years.

Prior to the Babylonian captivity the three basic texts of Judaism were considered to be complied in the Tanakh (the Law/Torah/ 1st 5 books of the Bible, the Prophets and the Writings).   During the Babylonian captivity Jewish scholars went crazy in the other direction - back to statements of faith and religious ceremony and regulations.  As bad as they were prior to Babylon in ignoring scripture, they were worse after Babylon in their multiplication of regulations and interpretations God did not intend.  This body of work is generally known as the Talmud.  There is more, but for purposes of convenient discussion the Talmud was the result.

When Jesus taught in the streets and towns of Judah and Samaria He restricted His comments to the Law (Torah), the Prophets and the Writings (Proverbs, Psalms, Ecclesiastes, etc.).  Jesus never quoted Talmudic texts.  Unfortunately the Babylonian influence permeated everything Jewish despite the teachings of their greatest prophet and messiah - Jesus.  The group Biblically referred to as the Pharisees were the most enthusiastic of any group in carrying these teachings forward in time.   They continue today as a group within Judaism known as Hasidic or Orthodox Jews.  The Hasidim are the pharisees of our day.

In addition to Hasidic theology, restrictive interpretation of Jewish texts and rejection of Yeshuah ha-mashiach (Jesus messiah/christ), Babylonian mysticism continues to infect Judaism and has spilled over into the modern secular world as well as Christianity.  Spiritism (the Occult), geneology, numerology and the myth of Hell are three categories that persist in Judaism and/or have been adopted by the institutionalized church.  

We owe our current belief system to a lot of trash from the past, specifically Babylon (as well as a few myths from ancient Egypt).  

Few there are who dare to challenge them.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft....

Edited January 12, 2019 by choir loft

[Scott Free]

1 hour ago, choir loft said:

We owe our current belief system to a lot of trash from the past, specifically Babylon (as well as a few myths from ancient Egypt).  

That was very well said choir loft. Thank you for the insight. I think the Babylonian influence on our modern world is more complicated than religious doctrine. Her secular impact on government and laws seems to be more relevant in bringing nations together in a global system of free trade and establishing international cooperation. Neo-Babylon body of influence continues today as the United Nations. Thanks to the U.S.' great wealth and military dominance over the territories of the old empires. 

[Willa]

Hasn't anyone considered that God might have allowed this "bullying" to occur to grow us a Christians?  Joseph said "you meant it for evil, but God meant it for good."   God can teach us to love the unlovable and forgive the unforgivable.  Few things hurt more than a pastor calling me a liar, a person I had trusted and had always supported but never lied to.  God allowed it and used it in my life to grow me.  The false rumors spread there also hurt.  But I forgave and prayed for them.   It seems to be the lot of genuine Christians to identify with the sufferings of Christ.  Has anything happened to us that He did not endure?  He also is praying for us.  Nothing can separate us from His love.  

 Rom 8:16  The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,  Rom 8:17 and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together.

 Rom 8:18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

[choir loft]

On 1/13/2019 at 8:40 PM, Willa said:

Hasn't anyone considered that God might have allowed this "bullying" to occur to grow us a Christians?  Joseph said "you meant it for evil, but God meant it for good."   God can teach us to love the unlovable and forgive the unforgivable.  Few things hurt more than a pastor calling me a liar, a person I had trusted and had always supported but never lied to.  God allowed it and used it in my life to grow me.  The false rumors spread there also hurt.  But I forgave and prayed for them.   It seems to be the lot of genuine Christians to identify with the sufferings of Christ.  Has anything happened to us that He did not endure?  He also is praying for us.  Nothing can separate us from His love.  

 Rom 8:16  The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,  Rom 8:17 and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together.

 Rom 8:18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

 

So....you are saying that bullying in any form is ok?

You justify it by quoting scripture, but the root idea you are promoting suggests you approve of bullying.

Just as a side thought.....do you have children?   Would you approve of someone bullying your children?  Certainly not.  I don't imagine you would for a moment.

Why then do you automatically assume God would approve of someone bullying His children - in church or anywhere else?

Why do you approve of bullying?

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

[Willa]

 2Ti 3:12  ESV Indeed, all who desire to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted,  2Ti 3:13 while evil people and impostors will go on from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived.

 

 

 

[choir loft]

17 hours ago, Willa said:

 2Ti 3:12  ESV Indeed, all who desire to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted,  2Ti 3:13 while evil people and impostors will go on from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived.

 

 

 

You are missing the point Willa.........

The issue is INTERNAL bullying, INTERNAL persecution.   Persecution and bullying by Christians perpetrated upon Christians.  It doesn't matter if leaders are guilty of this or if members of a church bully one another (which unfortunately is more often the case).

A member of any group can withstand persecution from outside the group - from a person or group outside one's support group.   This is one reason why a healthy family life is the most important social group anywhere.   It's another reason why a church is the next level important social group.   

We live together as a family - receiving nurture from each family member (in a healthy family).

We assemble ourselves together to worship and pray and share our spiritual journey with those with whom we expect to be supportive.

Members of a healthy family can get bullied out in town or at work and expect to come home for sympathy.   Members of a church ought to be able to expect to be beaten up in the world and be able to run back to the church family for encouragement and prayer and spiritual renewal.

NOBODY CAN SURVIVE BULLYING IN A FAMILY OR IN CHURCH.

It is NOT of God.  

Such a person is double-minded and unstable in all they do. - James 1:8

Suggestions that God creates a diabolical situation of bullying within the family and/or church is the product of double-minded thinking.  This is called TREASON anywhere else, by any other standard in human experience.  It is a vile and disgusting thing - an aberration in the face of social interaction God has intended for good and for healing and for strength.

Bullying is encouraged by the forces of the evil one - never by God within the family or church.   Anyone who says different is gravely mistaken.  Bullying within a church, if allowed to continue, can rip the group apart and destroy the fellowship.   It is not what God intends.   You quote Paul's letters.  Are you asserting that Paul supports bullying in church by saying its God's will?  May it never be.  Go back and read it again.

If you think God approves of bullying in a church, then please tell me where this is happening because I want to avoid it like the plague upon humanity it truly is.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

Edited February 3, 2019 by choir loft