OSAS is the result of the finished work of the cross

[discipler777]

7 hours ago, JustPassingThru said:

9 hours ago, Butero said:

There is nothing logical about your question!  The Bible doesn't teach OSAS, so naturally you won't find scripture to say you can sin all you want and remain saved.  That is because OSAS is a lie.  People that teach OSAS are arguing that no amount of sin a Christian commits can cause them to lose salvation, so duh, that means they can sin all they want and remain saved!  That is why I am asking if this is a serious question.  

 

 

This question, ...what's your logical answer to this?

"Tell me, if I can lose my salvation is not Jesus a liar, or, the Holy Spirit is not God? 

MATTHEW.10:33 (NKJV) = 33 But whoever denies Me before men, him I will also deny before My Father who is in heaven.

1TIMOTHY.4:1-5 = The Great Apostasy

1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, 3 forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. 4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing is to be refused if it is received with thanksgiving; 5 for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

 

2THESSALONIANS.2:1- = The Great Apostasy

2 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

.

2TIMOTHY.3:1- = Perilous Times and Perilous Men

3 But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: 2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, 4 traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away! 6 For of this sort are those who creep into households and make captives of gullible women loaded down with sins, led away by various lusts, 7 always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. 8 Now as Jannes and Jambres resisted Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, disapproved concerning the faith; 9 but they will progress no further, for their folly will be manifest to all, as theirs also was.

.

7 hours ago, JustPassingThru said:

Did not Jesus say He would never leave or forsake me, did He not say the Holy Spirit will never leave me?

Yes, ....... but once-saved Christians may choose to leave or forsake Jesus Christ/God/the Holy Spirit, like how Peter denied Jesus Christ 3X when in despair and facing persecution.

.

7 hours ago, JustPassingThru said:

So, If I am thrown into the Lake of Fire, will Jesus go with me or will He leave and forsake me, and/or, if the Holy Spirit goes with me and the Lake of Fire is eternal separation from God, He must not be God!  ...Which is it..." 

What a foolish question.! Why would Jesus go with you into the lake of fire and brimstone if you have chosen to go there yourself by leaving and forsaking or denying Him.?

.

Edited December 5, 2018 by discipler777

[enoob57]

Titus 3:5

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
KJV
those who ignore this do so in their own peril... imagine coming before The Lord, who 'IS' The only One Who has lived sinless here, bringing that which passes away as reason they should be permitted to enter into eternal life... The essence of this is explained here

John 8:23-24

23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.

24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
KJV

John 18:36

36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
KJV
The things of this present world is death, cursed of God, darkness and somehow these who teach the manipulation of this material as justification for everlasting reward will find this error

Matt 7:22-23

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
KJV

The most important thoughts we can have toward this 'IS' The Pure, Holy, Righteous Father demands the same essence That He Himself 'IS' … the works based salvation people do not understand this... in fact most do not understand this yet it is evident from the begin to the end in all that is said and done by God in Scripture! The unblemished, faultless lamb (animal), did not save them but was a picture of that which was not of this world come into this world and now has left this world.... those who get you to look to the things of this world to save or keep saved do not receive all instruction from God especially here

Jude 21-24

21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

22 And of some have compassion, making a difference:

23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
KJV
They think they can take the hated thing with them as justification to enter into The Fathers Eternal Presence....

 

Edited December 5, 2018 by enoob57

[enoob57]

1 hour ago, Butero said:

He wouldn't be leaving or forsaking you.  You would be leaving and forsaking him!  

This is not what the Scriptures claim:

John 10:28-30

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

30 I and my Father are one.
KJV

Rom 8:38-39

38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
KJV
satan knows that if he can get you to rely on self and the hated things of this world as means for The Eternal Life they cannot have that which is promised above.... the heart formed from the above has no self reliance but is totally 100% relying upon God and His promises … in this cleanness they move about here with The Holy Spirit living... for they ARE  unconnected to that which passes away...

Edited December 5, 2018 by enoob57

[enoob57]

1 hour ago, Butero said:

Faith plus nothing is a catch phrase.  It is not the gospel.  Show the verse in scripture that says that.  The Bible says faith without works is dead, not faith plus nothing.  

Can you tell me what these works are of -this place or of heaven?

[discipler777]

2 hours ago, enoob57 said:

Titus 3:5

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
KJV
those who ignore this do so in their own peril... imagine coming before The Lord, who 'IS' The only One Who has lived sinless here, bringing that which passes away as reason they should be permitted to enter into eternal life... The essence of this is explained here ...

.

The most important thoughts we can have toward this 'IS' The Pure, Holy, Righteous Father demands the same essence That He Himself 'IS' … the works based salvation people do not understand this... in fact most do not understand this yet it is evident from the begin to the end in all that is said and done by God in Scripture! The unblemished, faultless lamb (animal), did not save them but was a picture of that which was not of this world come into this world and now has left this world.... those who get you to look to the things of this world to save or keep saved do not receive all instruction from God especially here

Seems you do not understand that the debate here is about whether the doctrine of OSAS or "once saved ALWAYS saved" is false or true. Or whether "once saved NOT always saved" or "once saved may become unsaved" is true or false. The debate here is not about the elementary doctrine of whether Christians have been once-saved or justified for salvation by faith in Jesus Christ or by the works of the Law(GALATIANS.2:16). .......

.

HEBREWS.6:1-8 (NKJV) = The Peril of Not Progressing

6 Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, 2 of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. 3 And this we will do if God permits.

4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

7 For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; 8 but if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned.

.

Edited December 5, 2018 by discipler777

[enoob57]

1 hour ago, Butero said:

The scriptures you posted don't say what you claim they do.

 

The Scriptures point to God not to men.... and their reference leads to that which is eternally kept..... can you even tell me what that would be?

1 hour ago, Butero said:

Why don't you ask James?  

The teacher of Scripture must teach The Scripture not just James... so again I present you with the question are the works that are being kept, according to the Scriptures, of this place or of heaven?

1 hour ago, Butero said:

The garment is washed clean by the blood of Jesus, and remains clean unless you soil it again through willful sin.  Then it must be washed, just like dirty clothes need to be washed.  That requires confession of those sins, and then, the same blood makes them clean again.  Nobody is trying to take a dirty garment into heaven, except the OSAS crowd that believes they are filthy sinners.  

I am not asking for rhetoric I am asking for Scriptures... This is a Bible site please use the Bible.

1 hour ago, Butero said:

Satan knows if he can get people believing in OSAS, he can take them to hell, as they continue to live a life of unconfessed willful sins.  Many who believe OSAS don't live that way, but many are openly confessing they are filthy to this day.  

again lets stick to Bible and not rhetoric.... you use statements all the time without the Scripture from which the authority of words come!

[enoob57]

15 minutes ago, Cletus said:

Jas 1:27  Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

perhaps, just maybe, possibly this is what you were referring to?

So do I rely on what I have done with Mrs. Jones the widow in her need as salvation before Jesus?

[JustPassingThru]

If it weren't so sad this would be hilarious!

It seems, from reading what those that don't believe a born again child of God is eternally secure, don't believe in the finished work of the Cross, the work and power of the Holy Spirit operating in their lives or the Words of Jesus, in fact, what is ironic is they use Scripture from the Book of Hebrews to negate what Jesus promised us in the very same book, ...I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee. Heb 13:5. ...kinda like Jesus anticipated this heresy in the last days and the Holy Spirit added it in.

They are accusing  us OSAS of the same thing thing claim they would NEVER do, walk or turn away from Jesus, how hypocritical, they repeat over and over that we are blinded by the lies of Satan and can't see they are blinded by the sin of  unbelief, they call us names, they insult us, they mock us and with their next breath they affirm they are not sinning but are following Jesus, being conformed into His image, ...from what I have observed here is they are being conformed into the image, or rather are just manifesting their original ressemblance of Adam.  

As a babe in Christ the most terrifying words in the New Testament weren't found in the book of Hebrews, but rather the words of Jesus, 

"Depart from me, I NEVER KNEW you!" 

After living under the false teaching that I could lose my salvation for two years, I went back to the very first life verse Father gave me,

"For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the LORD, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end. Then shall ye call upon me, and ye shall go and pray unto me, and I will hearken unto you.  And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart."  Jer 29:1-13

I prayed and spent quiet time before the Lord, it was like He was holding me in His arms, His babe in Christ, I remember cleary, it's written on my heart, He said, "Dear child do you believe me? Did I not save you from dying from an overdose of LSD over 20 years ago, before you even knew anything about Me, do you think I can't keep you safe in my arms today, did I not say to you I had thoughts of peace for you, not of evil, to give you an expected end, ...to be with Me for all eternity? ...Believe in Me" 

I learned from the teachings of D.G, Barnhouse that the Word of God is like an inverted cone, resting on it's point, perfectly balanced, we can test what we believe by placing our interpretation of Scripture by placing in on the bottom of the of the cone, if it's true the cone will remain standing, perfectly balanced, but if there is just one single verse that disagrees with what we believe the cone will fall over, it's not a mistake in the Word of God, but rather we are wrong in what we believe!

Jesus said, "I will never leave you or forsake you," in faith Hab 2:4, Rom 1:17, Gal 3:11, Heb 10:38 I place my belief and trust in what the Holy Spirit said through Paul, 

"For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that He is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day." 2 Tim 1:12

Paul teaches us to avoid foolish disputes and wranglings, so in obedience to the Word this is my last post on this subject, I guess we'll just have to wait for that day to see who is correct.

Lord bless

[frienduff thaylorde]

10 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

You accuse me of not continue i n the Lord, leave the accusing to the devil friend Rev 12:10

Since when did exhorting one to CONTINUE in the Grace , in Christ become accusations .      Be looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of GOD

lets any root of bitternesss spring up .    Exhort one another daily lest any becomes hardened through the deceitfulness of sin .

To exhort , warn or correct , is not accusing or judging.      And on that note , let all start afresh and anew in CHRIST and read ONLY and I do mean ONLY the BIBLE for ourselves .

FOR many men and through all ages , have lied to many .  Have used tactics to make the WORD seem hard to grasp and this is how slaves of men are born .

This is how agendas get spread .      WE who have the LORD have the SPIRIT and let any man who lacks wisdom , ASK GOD .

WE IN THE LAST of the last of the last of days and many deceivers have abounded and the floodgates have been opened in that last final hour of great delusion .

GET IN BIBLES and STAY IN BIBLES  , this I warn us all .   GO back to that first love , GO back and seek ye the LORD with all the heart mind and soul .    For many will perish in the delusion of that great lie that is coming and even now inclusivism and all who have pleasure in sin are leading the world right too IT .     WE BEEN LIED TO HEBREWS .  WE TRULY HAVE .

And things wil only g et worse . Deceptions , not some great awakening ,  deceptions will only abound now and get far worse as even already it has began .

And I am talking about that final nasty delusion .    START OVER IN THE BIBLE ,   I say this to everyone , start over and do so fast .

[discipler777]

4 hours ago, enoob57 said:

5 hours ago, Butero said:

He wouldn't be leaving or forsaking you.  You would be leaving and forsaking him!  

This is not what the Scriptures claim:

John 10:28-30

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

30 I and my Father are one.
KJV

The above Scripture was referring only to the 11 Apostles of Christ and not to every Tom, Dik and Harry Christians, .......

 

JOHN.17:12 (NKJV) =  12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.

.

4 hours ago, enoob57 said:

Rom 8:38-39

38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
KJV
satan knows that if he can get you to rely on self and the hated things of this world as means for The Eternal Life they cannot have that which is promised above.... the heart formed from the above has no self reliance but is totally 100% relying upon God and His promises … in this cleanness they move about here with The Holy Spirit living... for they ARE  unconnected to that which passes away...

The above Scripture does not say that willful sins/Law-breaking, blasphemy, idolatry, homosexuality, murder, adultery, those of us who stop believing or deny Christ publicly, etc will not separate us from the love of God.

.

Anti-OSASers do not rely on self or self-efforts or the doing of the good works of the Law to be saved unto eternal life. Like most Christians, they rely on faith in Jesus Christ the Word to be saved and to remain saved until their very end.

Since you mentioned Satan, how did the Lord Jesus Christ overcome the temptations of Satan.?(MATTHEW.4:1-11) Anti-OSASers also do the same, ie overcome Satan by relying on the Word of God or His Law/commandments. OTOH, some OSASers ignore the Old Testament and the Law and the Prophets as applying only to the Jews or because justification for salvation is not by the Law = so they tend to ignorantly and unrepentantly commit willful sins/Law-breaking and then presume that their willful sins will never cause them to be unsaved by relying on the false and unscriptural OSAS or Hyper-grace doctrine. 

Edited December 5, 2018 by discipler777