Off topic from: God's Sovereign Choice

[Montana Marv]

9 hours ago, discipler777 said:

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1CORINTHIANS.6:9-11 (NKJV) = 9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

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ROMANS.6:1-4 = Dead to Sin, Alive to God

6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

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For Gentile Christians(GC), as per ACTS.15:19-29, there are essential/non-burdensome and non-essential/burdensome laws of God, the latter of which they may keep or not keep at their discretion or depending on their circumstances, eg the laws of circumcision, clean/kosher foods and tithing.(cf: ROMANS.14:1-4) 

ROMANS.7:12 & 7 say that God's Law, as found in the Old Testament, is good, holy, just and gives knowledge of what  are sins/evil-works. This includes the non-essential/burdensome laws of Moses. So, married GC couples should circumcise their male babies. Circumcision has some benefits, eg curb over-population and sexual immorality. The uncircumcised can behave like sex maniacs, eg over-populated China and India. If possible and not-a-burden, they should keep the law of clean/kosher foods.

They should also tithe about 3% of their income to support their Church, pastors, missionaries, evangelists, charities, etc, in order to be blessed by God. 10% of income applied only when the Temple/Church was also the national government. OTOH, GC who are widows, refugees, crime victims, destitute, physically disabled or mentally disabled should exempt themselves from the law of tithing.

In comparison, at ACTS.21:20-25, God required Jewish Christians to continue to keep ALL of His Law or Moses Law, as many laws as possible, because it was not a burden to them since they had done so from childhood.

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IN ESSENTIALS UNITY, IN NON-ESSENTIALS LIBERTY, IN ALL THINGS JESUS CHRIST.

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Who are the Righteous. Do they sin. The unrighteous are Lost. The Righteous are redeemed and may lose rewards. They are part of the Kingdom of God in heaven.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[discipler777]

47 minutes ago, Montana Marv said:

10 hours ago, discipler777 said:

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1CORINTHIANS.6:9-11 (NKJV) = 9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

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ROMANS.6:1-4 = Dead to Sin, Alive to God

6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

.

For Gentile Christians(GC), as per ACTS.15:19-29, there are essential/non-burdensome and non-essential/burdensome laws of God, the latter of which they may keep or not keep at their discretion or depending on their circumstances, eg the laws of circumcision, clean/kosher foods and tithing.(cf: ROMANS.14:1-4) 

ROMANS.7:12 & 7 say that God's Law, as found in the Old Testament, is good, holy, just and gives knowledge of what  are sins/evil-works. This includes the non-essential/burdensome laws of Moses. So, married GC couples should circumcise their male babies. Circumcision has some benefits, eg curb over-population and sexual immorality. The uncircumcised can behave like sex maniacs, eg over-populated China and India. If possible and not-a-burden, they should keep the law of clean/kosher foods.

They should also tithe about 3% of their income to support their Church, pastors, missionaries, evangelists, charities, etc, in order to be blessed by God. 10% of income applied only when the Temple/Church was also the national government. OTOH, GC who are widows, refugees, crime victims, destitute, physically disabled or mentally disabled should exempt themselves from the law of tithing.

In comparison, at ACTS.21:20-25, God required Jewish Christians to continue to keep ALL of His Law or Moses Law, as many laws as possible, because it was not a burden to them since they had done so from childhood.

.

IN ESSENTIALS UNITY, IN NON-ESSENTIALS LIBERTY, IN ALL THINGS JESUS CHRIST.

.

Who are the Righteous. Do they sin. The unrighteous are Lost. The Righteous are redeemed and may lose rewards. They are part of the Kingdom of God in heaven.

.

MATTHEW.7:15-25 (NKJV) = You Will Know Them by Their Fruits

15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

I Never Knew You

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Build on the Rock

24 “Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock: 25 and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock.

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JOHN.15:1-8 = The True Vine

15:1 “I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.

5 “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. 7 If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you,you will ask what you desire, and it shall be done for you. 8 By this My Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit; so you will be My disciples.

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ROMANS.11:11-12 & 19-24 = Israel’s Rejection Not Final

11 I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles. 12 Now if their fall is riches for the world, and their failure riches for the Gentiles, how much more their fullness! ...

19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.” 20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. 22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, who are natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?

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Edited December 24, 2018 by discipler777

[Mike Mclees]

Lets not forget that  man and women God gave a certain independence. A brain  to reason and make choices right or wrong. God will not violate that even though he is greater than the power to sin.   Sin or rightlessness is to obey or disobey, the choice is ours. God will not force His authority over anyone.  

[JohnD]

I am beginning to see that any who doubt the eternal part of eternal salvation do not know what it is.

Once saved always saved or whatever they want to call it stems from the distinction between the two covenants (Law and Grace)

being blurred by those who bring Law into Grace.

It usually begins with reading the Sermon on the Mount (which was in Old Testament times under the Law of Moses according to Hebrews 9:16-17 and the Lord Jesus himself in Luke 22:20 and 1 Corinthians 11:25) "forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us... for if you forgive not your brother, neither shall your Heavenly Father forgive you..." or, "if your hand causes you to sin cut it off and throw it away, for it is better to enter life maimed than hell fully intact." These are NOT New Covenant Grace but Old Covenant Law.

Refresher Course:

John 3:16–18 (AV)
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Only believe.

Ephesians 2:8–10 (AV)
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Only believe.

John 10:27–29 (AV)
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.

1 Corinthians 5:5 (AV)
5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Can't earn salvation.

Can't keep salvation.

Can't be taken from salvation.

Can't sin your way out of salvation.

Can't walk away...

1 John 2:18–19 (AV)
18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

Jeremiah 32:40 (AV)
40 And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.

 

 

[JohnD]

Galatians 3:24–29 (AV)
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized* into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

* Matthew 3:11 (AV)
11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

[Mike Mclees]

13 hours ago, JohnD said:

I am beginning to see that any who doubt the eternal part of eternal salvation do not know what it is.

Once saved always saved or whatever they want to call it stems from the distinction between the two covenants (Law and Grace)

being blurred by those who bring Law into Grace.

It usually begins with reading the Sermon on the Mount (which was in Old Testament times under the Law of Moses according to Hebrews 9:16-17 and the Lord Jesus himself in Luke 22:20 and 1 Corinthians 11:25) "forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us... for if you forgive not your brother, neither shall your Heavenly Father forgive you..." or, "if your hand causes you to sin cut it off and throw it away, for it is better to enter life maimed than hell fully intact." These are NOT New Covenant Grace but Old Covenant Law.

Refresher Course:

John 3:16–18 (AV)
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Only believe.

Ephesians 2:8–10 (AV)
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Only believe.

John 10:27–29 (AV)
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.

1 Corinthians 5:5 (AV)
5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Can't earn salvation.

Can't keep salvation.

Can't be taken from salvation.

Can't sin your way out of salvation.

Can't walk away...

1 John 2:18–19 (AV)
18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

Jeremiah 32:40 (AV)
40 And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.

 

 

The Lord did not make robots. This does not mean he is doing anything against our will and right to choose. The children of Israel broke the Lords covenant many times and so say the prophets. Those who truly love the Lord with all their heart mind and soul will not depart