An atheist requires an answer

[leah777]

8 minutes ago, Michael37 said:

Suicide isn't God's will. It's an act of rebellion against Him. Nothing in the Bible justifies it, and while we empathise and sympathise with those impacted by suicide and should not speak in harsh judgment and condemnation, the truth is suicide is a work of the flesh, is ultimately selfish and does nothing to glorify God but rather is contrary to the work of the Comforter, His indwelling Spirit. 

Joh 10:10
(10)  The thief comes not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

Jas 3:9-18
(9)  Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.
(10)  Out of the same mouth proceeds blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.
(11)  Does a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter?
(12)  Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh.
(13)  Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.
(14)  But if you have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth.
(15)  This wisdom descends not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.
(16)  For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.
(17)  But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.
(18)  And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.

compassion for a soul in deep distress is a good thing.

[Marandawont]

Interesting....

Maybe this is better.

God wouldn't waste his time forming you in your mothers womb if you weren't here for a purpose. He created  you, AND KNOWS YOUR PAIN. Suicide is selfish, we need your love we need your gifts SO HE may be glorified.

 

[Michael37]

1 minute ago, Melinda12 said:

Ah i would never quote scripture at anyone. I myself would like to read the relevant bible verses, understand them then tell her about them. I first need to know what our Lord God tells us. I never spout scripture at anyone.  

Hi Melinda12, This is one of those topics virtually impossible to find a consensus of opinion on. Search the internet and you will find a cross-section of statements, but ultimately suicide is desperate and tragic in contrast to faith in Christ and walking in the Spirit of God. 

Php 4:4-9
(4)  Rejoice in the Lord alway: and again I say, Rejoice.
(5)  Let your moderation be known unto all men. The Lord is at hand.
(6)  Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.
(7)  And the peace of God, which passes all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.
(8)  Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.
(9)  Those things, which you have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you.

[Marandawont]

8 minutes ago, Melinda12 said:

Ah i would never quote scripture at anyone. I myself would like to read the relevant bible verses, understand them then tell her about them. I first need to know what our Lord God tells us. I never spout scripture at anyone.  

That's why we can choose how we witness.

but I left this....

If we are followers of Christ doesn't everything fall back on Gods word?

1 Peter 4:11

If anyone speaks, they should do so as one who speaks the very words of God. If anyone serves, they should do so with the strength God provides, so that in all things God may be praised through Jesus Christ. To him be the glory and the power for ever and ever. Amen.

[HAZARD]

4 hours ago, Melinda12 said:

I have a great friend. Highly intelligentent and reasonable. I have good discussions with her. She asked something today that i need help to answer. 

What is the Biblical Christian view of suicide? What happens to the soul of a person who takes their own life? My friend says if christians  believe in a merciful loving God, how can it be that such a sad tormented soul could be punished for doing such a thing?  I do not know how to answer her as my understanding is limited on it. 

So point me please to actual Bible references please anyone then i can go back to her properly on this subject. 

Hi Melinda.

 God shows us how He deals with men who commit suicide, Judas for instance. he had the Holy Spirit and power like the other apostles, he was a successful preacher and healer like them (Matt. 10:1-20; Mark 6:7-13). He had his name written in Heaven, as proved by Acts 1:20 with Ps. 69:25-29. He fell from his apostleship by transgression (Acts 1:25).

Judas was sorry afterwards for his betrayal (Matt. 27:3-5). he could have been forgiven as much as any of the other apostles including Peter who cursed and denied Christ, and fled like cowards in the test. But being of a disposition to do so, he brooded over his fall and yielded to temptation to commit suicide.

Acts 1:16-25;

16, Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus.
    17, For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry.
    18, Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.
    19, And it was known unto all the dwellers at Jerusalem; insomuch as that field is called in their proper tongue, Aceldama, that is to say, The field of blood.
    20, For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.
    21, Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,
    22, Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.
    23, And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias.
    24, And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,
    25, That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.

Jesus Himself acknowledged to the Father that those who the father had given Him, Judas was the only one whom He had lost (John 17:12). Christ could not have lost Judas if He never had him to lose.

Jesus further testified that to every one (including Judas) that the Father had given Him, He had given them eternal life (John 17:2).Judas had this eternal life as much as the others, but he became "lost" later and by "Transgression fell" (Acts 1:25).

Saul who was in God's grace and who had the Holy Spirit, lost that favour and was destroyed by sin. ( 1 Chron. 10:13-14). he committed suicide and must be lost for no murderer has eternal life (1 Sam. 28:7-25; 31:1-6; 1 John 3:15; Gal. 5:19-21). He went into spiritualism and God said He would cut off the man who did this (Lev. 19:31; 20:6; Deut. 18:11). he was a humble and Godly man to begin with, but he did not end this way (1 Sam. 10:21-24).

[Marandawont]

25 minutes ago, deartheopolis said:

If a believer commits suicide then God always knew that they would.  They go to Heaven as if they died in any other way.  Suicide being a sin is a Catholic concept.  

I'm not Catholic.

[Marandawont]

13 minutes ago, maryjayne said:

someone contemplating suicide often does not realise how much they are loved, or how important they are to others. They may think they would be being unselfish to release their family from the burden of being around such an unhappy person. Reminding them of their value as a person, that they are loved, how God feels about them and treasures them, these things help.

condemnation and/or calling them selfish rarely helps in this situation. Gently bringing them round to a new way of thinking is best.

I'm not a psychologist. I'm a follower of Christ. and  it is SELFISH. I was suicidal, and people showing me pity made my situation even worse, it took people showing me truth. Truth is what helped me be free. As the word states.  You cannot show Truth without love they are inseparable , sounds like you all want to show only empathy. That only goes so far.

Edited January 18, 2019 by Marandawont

[HAZARD]

40 minutes ago, deartheopolis said:

If a believer commits suicide then God always knew that they would.  They go to Heaven as if they died in any other way.  Suicide being a sin is a Catholic concept.  

God does not know what a free moral agent will do until they carry out their thoughts. Remember when God tested Abraham to see if he would remain true to God and receive the promised blessings? God told Abraham to offer his son Isaac. Abraham obeyed and God stopped him from slaying Isaac and God then said;

Gen 22:12, And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me. 

God did no know how Abraham would choose until he chose. We are all free to chose which way we will go.

Deut. 30:19, I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

The Bible plainly teaches that people who take their own lives will have their names removed from the book of life, resulting in them going to Hell.

King Saul, and Judas are two classic examples,

 God shows us how He deals with men who commit suicide, Judas for instance. he had the Holy Spirit and power like the other apostles, he was a successful preacher and healer like them (Matt. 10:1-20; Mark 6:7-13). He had his name written in Heaven, as proved by Acts 1:20 with Ps. 69:25-29. He fell from his apostleship by transgression (Acts 1:25).

Judas was sorry afterwards for his betrayal (Matt. 27:3-5). he could have been forgiven as much as any of the other apostles including Peter who cursed and denied Christ, and fled like cowards in the test. But being of a disposition to do so, he brooded over his fall and yielded to temptation to commit suicide.

Acts 1:16-25;

16, Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus.
    17, For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry.
    18, Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.
    19, And it was known unto all the dwellers at Jerusalem; insomuch as that field is called in their proper tongue, Aceldama, that is to say, The field of blood.
    20, For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.
    21, Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,
    22, Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.
    23, And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias.
    24, And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,
    25, That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.

Jesus Himself acknowledged to the Father that those who the father had given Him, Judas was the only one whom He had lost (John 17:12). Christ could not have lost Judas if He never had him to lose.

Jesus further testified that to every one (including Judas) that the Father had given Him, He had given them eternal life (John 17:2).Judas had this eternal life as much as the others, but he became "lost" later and by "Transgression fell" (Acts 1:25).

Saul who was in God's grace and who had the Holy Spirit, lost that favour and was destroyed by sin. ( 1 Chron. 10:13-14). he committed suicide and must be lost for no murderer has eternal life (1 Sam. 28:7-25; 31:1-6; 1 John 3:15; Gal. 5:19-21). He went into spiritualism and God said He would cut off the man who did this (Lev. 19:31; 20:6; Deut. 18:11). he was a humble and Godly man to begin with, but he did not end this way (1 Sam. 10:21-24).

[Marandawont]

13 minutes ago, HAZARD said:

The Bible plainly teaches that people who take their own lives will have their names removed from the book of life, resulting in them going to Hell.

King Saul, and Judas are two classic examples,

Yea It worries me that believers don't already know this....

if we could commit suicide and still reach salvation how many of us would be left to actually spread Gods word?

Id probably be gone.

 

 

[JustPassingThru]

4 hours ago, Melinda12 said:

I have a great friend. Highly intelligentent and reasonable. I have good discussions with her. She asked something today that i need help to answer. 

What is the Biblical Christian view of suicide? What happens to the soul of a person who takes their own life? My friend says if christians  believe in a merciful loving God, how can it be that such a sad tormented soul could be punished for doing such a thing?  I do not know how to answer her as my understanding is limited on it. 

So point me please to actual Bible references please anyone then i can go back to her properly on this subject. 

It seems you have been given the Biblical answers you were asking for, ...whether considered cold or merciful.

I have a different approach to suicide, it's been my experience, and I've had lots, (volunteering to take calls on a Crisis Intervention Hotline), that suicidal people are hurting emotionally, someone has hurt their soul, what I would point out to them is they have had dreams that terrified them, monsters chasing them, falling, running with lead feet, and when they woke up their heart was racing, their skin was cold and they were drenched in perspiration, all at the same time the corporeal body was sound asleep. 

Here's the hook we would use, ...you are hurting in your emotions (Biblically the soul), and you want to kill your body to escape? If you can experience emotions from dreams when you are asleep, how do you know killing your body will give you the release from your emotional pain that you are seeking after the body is dead, if your emotions can be active and causing stress when the body is asleep?

Once the hook is set, then you can start a conversation with them about their reason to end their life and at the Holy Spirit's leading, eventually explain to them the Gospel.

When a suicidal person understands that their current emotional pain won't stop by planting the Truth that their soul is separate from their body then they can begin to see the Light, ...let there be Light, there was Light.

Lord bless