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Melinda12

An atheist requires an answer

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The beginning of salvation is not by works.  Being born again is a gift, wholly worked by the  Holy Spirit and only received by the  believer.  I agree with the characterization of suicide as self-murder...it is murder...taking a life that does not belong to you.   We were bought with a price.  But, what cannot be won by works cannot be lost by them either.  If a born again believer in Jesus should fall  into  such  a deep deception as to take his own life I am fully convinced  his salvation is secure.  But man I'd hate to come face to face with Jesus when my last physical act was murder.

I honestly believe it would be impossible for us to righteously judge any suicide.  The levels of deception involved and how someone got  tricked into  accepting the lies are simply not knowable by us and only God will be able to take the whole situation into account when passing judgement on that sin.  I suspect we will all grieve a little when we get home  and see all the  rewards that were set apart for us had we just walked out the appointed path instead  of going  our own way.  That may well be the source  of the tears Father  has to dry in heaven.  I do think suicide will have consequences, but  loss of salvation will not be one of them.  The loss of unearned rewards a full life  of service could have accumulated for eternity will likely be felt quite keenly.

The suicide who never knew Jesus at all has been tricked into sealing his eternal fate - sad indeed.

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I believe one of the main problems is that people are under the misconception that there is no "Hell" or "eternal death" when the Bible clearly states that there is (Mk 9:47-48). Of course, it is easy to take an objective armchair approach, and judge from a distance with intellectual calipers and judge objectively, and say that someone should not have done so and stuck it out.

What if the person who has terminal cancer and cannot deal with the chemo side effects or maybe some other physical defect, blind, cripple, the list just goes on and on. I would consider these to be bonafide reasons from a human perspective. God will be the judge though if one takes a wide view of Rom 14:10-11.

The person who believes that he escapes the realities of a particular sin is clearly barking up the wrong tree is he believes that he or she will sleep forever as if they never existed by committing suicide. Those" wages of sin " (Rom 6:23) still have to be faced pertaining to eternal death as read with Mk 9:47-48.One only has to be reminded  of Saul's suicide (I Sam 31:4-5) and Judas (Mt 27:5)But bear in mind that under common law in most countries "committing suicide" is no crime. However, "advising" someone or encouraging them to do so, would be in most cases considered to be complicity or accessory  to the unlawful intentional act of killing a human being.In which case it would be talking about  "murder" on the part of the "adviser"!

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   2 hours ago,  Blood Bought 1953 said: 

 

I think suicide by anyone who is in the Body of Christ would be extremely rare.Having said that ,ALL of their sins are covered by the Blood.....including the terrible, heartbreaking sin of self- murder.If , at any time theses poor souls have come to Jesus as broken sinners that believe He died for their sins and rose from the grave after three days , their Salvation-is secure.They May stand ashamed when they appear before their Savior , along with Believers that are homosexuals.I got plenty to be ashamed of too.How about you? I thank God for His Grace “ Where sin abounds, grace abounds that much more”

 

What are you trying to imply? Yes, of course I have done things I'm ashamed of. 

 

I wasn’t referring specifically to you.......sorry for the misunderstanding...

Edited by Blood Bought 1953

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1 hour ago, Hands On said:

However, "advising" someone or encouraging them to do so, would be in most cases considered to be complicity or accessory  to the unlawful intentional act of killing a human being.In which case it would be talking about  "murder" on the part of the "adviser"!

so very much agree.

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Samson killed himself to avoid a future full of nothing but pain and torture.....Saul killed himself to avoid capture where he would have to endure a life of constant  humiliation and pain. Sampson is in the elite “ Faith Hall of Fame” I am certain he is saved because of his faith, despite a life of constant disobedience.Some say Saul was saved and others claim he was not saved because he lacked faith. I don’t know- God will judge rightly, that we can be sure of .

A non-  believer who commits suicide will be damned because of his or her unbelief—- the only thing that ultimately that sends anybody to Hell.The suicide itself was neither here nor there.They got to their torment a few years earlier perhaps .

I suffered a few years ago from extreme depression.I have studied hundreds of books and articles on this terrible condition and I have to say that almost nobody has a clue about it —- unless you have been there.Depression is not being sad— depression is about being dead.Imagine the top 20 things in your life that give you pleasure . Your spouse, your kids, your job , golfing, fishing, talking to friends, reading books, going for walks, grandchildren—- of course, the list is endless.Now imagine that you derive NO pleasure from any of these things. You’d just as soon sit on the edge of the bed and stare at the floor.Same excitement, same meaning.You are like a zombie.And that’s enough to make anybody sad, don’t you think.Everybody has a limit as to how much of this kind of “ life” one can endure.When utter misery fills the present and only fear and dread comprise the future— that intersection is where suicide becomes an enticing option.Thoughts of God , effects on the family, etc don’t even enter the mind— you just want OUT.When my fears and despairs were at their worst, I had a mouthful of pills and the only thing that kept me from swallowing them was cowardice.Its One heck of a jump to make the leap from contemplation to actually carrying out suicide.Looking back, I thank  God that He granted me the cowardice to not carry out my plans, as crazy as that sounds.In the end , that is what is all about.Craziness.I thank God that He delivered me from it.I am completely back to normal now—- there is a reason to get up about of bed each day.I am at peace, I have an inward joy that can’t be thwarted and I am constantly growing in my faith and getting to know God, which is the point of everything .To those who now find themselves where I was......hang onto your faith with a fingernail if you have to! Keep praying.....keep trusting......go see a Doctor that can prescribe medication that can help more than you ever dreamed was possible.With the help of God,you can rediscover how great this life is. “Blessed men GO THROUGH valleys of weeping”...... “ I am the God that healeth thee”...... “ All good things ( like Doctors and medication) come from God”. Act on these great promises of God and He will get you through this Valley.God bless

 

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Maybe what can help is asking your friend what is her purpose for asking such a question? Is it to understand the truth? Or is it to find a reason to disprove the love of God through this question?

People's spirit leaks out through their mouth (Luke 6:45). It is possible that your friend may be contemplating suicide, but it could also be a way to continually search for an issue with God.

All this is just to say to work out the motive of your friend. The motive will directly effect the best answer to give her.

And like always, ask God for His thoughts.

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As with all sins we are dealing with darkness not light... sin brings confusion which can alienate right thinking, feelings, self awareness etc.  It will be baby steps to lead them into the light of life with God. Prayed... Love, Steven

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There are times of discouragement. Times when I ask God if he would just take me home even that I have been saved 35 yrs. Of course I would not take my own life. The world has nothing for me because I have seen the  lie of ambition. Chasing golden rainbows. we look for security but there is no security the world can offer. There is nothing here of value. If I  was wealthy I will still die along with the poor man. So what is being wealthy that you have the good life and creature comforts. 

Jesus said "What prophets a man it he gain the whole world and loses his soul." 

The rich man had many barns but they still were not enough so he built bigger barns and thought he was ready to take his ease . The Angle of the Lord came that night and said you fool it is now time to take you soul. 

There is only one we live for and he came t give us life not for us to throw it away.

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12 hours ago, Blood Bought 1953 said:

Samson killed himself to avoid a future full of nothing but pain and torture.....Saul killed himself to avoid capture where he would have to endure a life of constant  humiliation and pain.

Samson had let God down by revealing the secret of his power to the enemy which led to the loss of said power, his capture, and the gouging of his eyes.  He realized his mistake and asked God to return his power so he could bring an entire temple down upon the thousands of Philistines present including their rulers.  His honorable death was not in vain.

"25 While they were in high spirits, they shouted, “Bring out Samson to entertain us.” So they called Samson out of the prison, and he performed for them.  When they stood him among the pillars, 26 Samson said to the servant who held his hand, “Put me where I can feel the pillars that support the temple, so that I may lean against them.” 27 Now the temple was crowded with men and women; all the rulers of the Philistines were there, and on the roof were about three thousand men and women watching Samson perform. 28 Then Samson prayed to the Lord, “Sovereign Lord, remember me. Please, God, strengthen me just once more, and let me with one blow get revenge on the Philistines for my two eyes.” 29 Then Samson reached toward the two central pillars on which the temple stood. Bracing himself against them, his right hand on the one and his left hand on the other, 30 Samson said, “Let me die with the Philistines!” Then he pushed with all his might, and down came the temple on the rulers and all the people in it. Thus he killed many more when he died than while he lived." -Judges 16:25-30

Saul was on the verge of death.  He was severely wounded by archers and groaned his request for his armor bearer to kill him before the Philistines had a chance to mock and kill him themselves.  His armor bearer refused so Saul fell upon his own sword to hasten his impending death.

Edited by Dove

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an atheist requires an answer .   THEN give them the ONLY ANSWER their is .   JESUS IS the ONLY WAY , the TRUTH and the LIFE

and all else is death and the second death .    waste no time preaching wise philophies which make the cross of Christ of no effect .

THEY need to hear with total absolution and   total conviction that  JESUS  is the only way  .   FOR I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ .

IT is the POWER of GOD unto all who believe .    Might not sound cool in this day and age , BUT ITS TOTAL TRUTH and must get sounded from truly convicted hearts .

 

Edited by frienduff thaylorde
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