Is Jesus the lord first or the savior first.

[missmuffet]

1.Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved Acts 16:31.

2. Believe God has raised Jesus Christ from the dead.

3. Ask for forgiveness of your sins.

You will then go to a Bible and start learning about Jesus Christ who loves you more than you know. 

[JohnD]

On 1/26/2019 at 12:07 AM, Wayne222 said:

 I heard a good sermon about this. Do we have to make Jesus lord of our life first. I would say no. First and for most we need to be born again. We are not saved by works of righteousness that we have done. If we have to first repent of disobedience to be right with God then we are relying on our works. So we need Jesus as our saviour to be forgI've of our sins. We have to trust in Jesus and believe he is the son of God. When we just trust in Jesus then we become born again. We as new born creation will obey him. Like it says in 1 john. He who is born again does not commit sin. That is as a way of life. You can sin but you surly don't want to continue in sin. 

I've always been leery of the term "MAKE Jesus the Lord of (y)our life..."

Fact of the matter is, he is the LORD of every life whether we know it or admit it or not. 

The ONLY requirement in fact for salvation (hence he is our savior) is simply believing it according to Hebrews 11, John 3:16-18, Ephesians 2:8-10, 1 John 5:13

[JohnD]

To buttress this argument:

1 John 2:2 (AV)
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world*.

1 Timothy 4:10 (AV)
10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who IS the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

* In conjunction with Hebrews 11, John 3:16-18, Ephesians 2:8-10, 1 John 5:13... means this prepaid salvation is available to all mankind but is only activated

once an individual believes.  So this is by no means universal salvation.

 

[Your closest friendnt]

5 hours ago, JohnD said:

To buttress this argument:

1 John 2:2 (AV)
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world*.

1 Timothy 4:10 (AV)
10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who IS the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

* In conjunction with Hebrews 11, John 3:16-18, Ephesians 2:8-10, 1 John 5:13... means this prepaid salvation is available to all mankind but is only activated

once an individual believes.  So this is by no means universal salvation.

 

There is something in this post that brings peace in the heart of a believer, because it shows that Jesus is not going to hold our sins against us. 

This is not readily understood. 

In two words, a believer in Jesus Christ, and when I said a believer in Jesus Christ is within the context that we believe that he died for the forgiveness for our sins, just to make it very simple, and the resurection, and his receiving Heaven for his inheritance and not only for him (as a man), but also for any one of the human race who believes in him. From the very first man Adam, and the very first man who died Abel. Hope the reader to be conscious and remind ones self that Jesus died to saved man only, he died for all from the beginning. It is to be reminded that Jesus came to Saved man from the Devil, this reminds us that Jesus also came to Judge the Devil.

That exactly what God told the Serpent infront of Adam and Eve.

This is Jesus is the Savior...we needed a Savior to Save us from the Devil, who used to take every human being who died from the beginning. 

Thanks to God for that. 

Because of that the man heaving not a Heavenly Inheritance before Jesus CHRIST resuraction, the devil had to take also Jesus down to his own world. As a man following in the path of man. 

Thanks to God , Jesus said I now have the keys of Hades and Death, Amen. 

There was only one place for man to go before Jesus Christ inherited Heaven, not only for him but also for us who believe. 

When we say before Jesus Christ there was only one place, it is that no one ascended into Heaven after they died , only Desceded even thought not in the same place. 

Even the people of God in the Bossom of Abraham, had to descend , waiting for the Savior who gave life to them, and to anyone of the rest of the dead upon BELIEVING. Jesus died for all. 

And since that time we have Heaven open for us, that's what Jesus said and that's what he told to Steven at the time of his death, by showing to him the vision. 

Steven, thats where I am and that's where you are coming to be with me.

The essence is believers  they do not understand the beaty of the Gospel, and are afraid to die because of sins, and they make everything sinfull, and repent from imaginative sins giving peace to them selfs, and then till they create another sin and all over again. Jesus was made the propritiation for our sins, he won't hold our sins against us, we are under his blood.

this is one side of the coin, they other side is that Jesus knows that he is the Judge of all, that he is the Savior of the world and that there is a place in Heaven for everyone who believes in him. 

Those who are far away from him while they live , hope that do not expect to be close to him in Heaven after they die.

An example, but very close to the truth, I believe. 

(Minus the Devil who has already an inheritance the one bellow). 

Nicodemus was not a sinner, he was as a perfect man as one can be in the Jewish inheritance, without Jesus Christ he was not lost, don't be quick to frick out from this statement.

He was not lost because Abraham was not lost, he was like Abraham one of God's children in his time according to the Law,

for Abraham and others of his descendants, before the Law was a diferent situation. 

If Nicodemus had died before Jesus CHRIST he would have descended to the Bossom of Abraham,  not to the place who hold the dead of the rest of the world, but to the place of the children of God, who were without the life giving spirit of Jesus Christ. 

Waiting for Jesus Christ to descend to them and give them the Life and take them to their new Heavenly Inheritance, to the inheritance of the children with the life. 

That's what Jesus was telling Nicodemus to believe in him after he sees him dieing on the Cross, of course at the right time when the Gospel was preach by the disciples. 

This way he would be born and sealed by the spirit of Jesus Christ the spirit of LIFE. 

And he will be born in the new family of God, those who worship in spirit and truth. 

Is not only about sins, the devil is in this world, and this world is not Heaven, I am taulking for the masses of believers. 

That means we can make our lifes and the devil can help us to make our lifes "like Hell", here on earth. And not all the time. And some times God works in mysterious ways, as in the life of Paul for his divine plan he promise to him that he will see him also in his afflictions. 

Stange as it was , Paul still shaw the Devil in his afflictions till he learn to wait to see our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, who told him see me there also. My grace is sufficient for you. 

That's why one way is to not sin, and draw near to Jesus Christ...

But still we are subject to the afflictions of this life, but this time we are with the help of Jesus Christ and he has given us the Holy Spirit, and his Angels...and many other gifts we may not quite understand. 

If you are at a hockey game, in all that commotion can you tell who is born from the Spirit, believes in Jesus Christ or not. 

Jesus can!!!

And he gives and seals with the spirit of life everyone who believes. 

Today is the day of salvation if you hear the Gospel believe, with the heart man believes unto righteousness of Jesus CHRIST. And recieves the Spirit if Life and a Heavenly Inheritance. 

There is ignorance among the believers, that's why Jesus said to teach them the faith, because they are called to believe as they are.

But dont judge their faith. We are not called to judge their faith by their actions or their words only to guide them towards the light. 

 

 

[JohnD]

Yeshua HaNotzri  is the only creation of the Heavenly Father (John 1:14b, Hebrews 10:5, Hebrews 1:5)

who God the Word (John 1:1-2 / 1 John 1:1-2) became (John 1:14a).

Yeshua (preincarnate) is the sole Creator of all things created (John 1:1-3, Colossians 1:13-16, ISAIAH 44:24, Genesis 1:1 etc.). 

Clearly he did this on his own (again, Isaiah 44:24) in the company of the Father (1 John 1:1-2) and the Spirit of God (Genesis 1:1-2).

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

"The old one -  two"  ...as I like to call it when witnessing to cultists or anyone who challenges the biblical teaching of the triune nature of the one God

John 1:1-2

1 John 1:1-2

Genesis 1:1-2

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

MY POINT:

Jesus is, was, and always shall be the LORD of all. Believing or not. Jesus is Lord God Creator of all that is created in the beginning.

Note: clearly Jesus did not create his own body but that came after the beginning.

In fact the Lordship of Jesus over every created thing is WHY it was he and not the Father or the Holy Spirit who became the God-man and laid that life down

in sacrifice for human sin.

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Side note: I cannot help but make this point having been victimized by those who believe positions of authority only means unlimited power over subordinates...

one is a FOOL who believes it is not first and foremost being held accountable / responsible for that position of authority long before one can take its benefits and

privileges into account.

[Mike Mclees]

8 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

There is something in this post that brings peace in the heart of a believer, because it shows that Jesus is not going to hold our sins against us. 

This is not readily understood. 

In two words, a believer in Jesus Christ, and when I said a believer in Jesus Christ is within the context that we believe that he died for the forgiveness for our sins, just to make it very simple, and the resurection, and his receiving Heaven for his inheritance and not only for him (as a man), but also for any one of the human race who believes in him. From the very first man Adam, and the very first man who died Abel. Hope the reader to be conscious and remind ones self that Jesus died to saved man only, he died for all from the beginning. It is to be reminded that Jesus came to Saved man from the Devil, this reminds us that Jesus also came to Judge the Devil.

That exactly what God told the Serpent infront of Adam and Eve.

This is Jesus is the Savior...we needed a Savior to Save us from the Devil, who used to take every human being who died from the beginning. 

Thanks to God for that. 

Because of that the man heaving not a Heavenly Inheritance before Jesus CHRIST resuraction, the devil had to take also Jesus down to his own world. As a man following in the path of man. 

Thanks to God , Jesus said I now have the keys of Hades and Death, Amen. 

There was only one place for man to go before Jesus Christ inherited Heaven, not only for him but also for us who believe. 

When we say before Jesus Christ there was only one place, it is that no one ascended into Heaven after they died , only Desceded even thought not in the same place. 

Even the people of God in the Bossom of Abraham, had to descend , waiting for the Savior who gave life to them, and to anyone of the rest of the dead upon BELIEVING. Jesus died for all. 

And since that time we have Heaven open for us, that's what Jesus said and that's what he told to Steven at the time of his death, by showing to him the vision. 

Steven, thats where I am and that's where you are coming to be with me.

The essence is believers  they do not understand the beaty of the Gospel, and are afraid to die because of sins, and they make everything sinfull, and repent from imaginative sins giving peace to them selfs, and then till they create another sin and all over again. Jesus was made the propritiation for our sins, he won't hold our sins against us, we are under his blood.

this is one side of the coin, they other side is that Jesus knows that he is the Judge of all, that he is the Savior of the world and that there is a place in Heaven for everyone who believes in him. 

Those who are far away from him while they live , hope that do not expect to be close to him in Heaven after they die.

An example, but very close to the truth, I believe. 

(Minus the Devil who has already an inheritance the one bellow). 

Nicodemus was not a sinner, he was as a perfect man as one can be in the Jewish inheritance, without Jesus Christ he was not lost, don't be quick to frick out from this statement.

He was not lost because Abraham was not lost, he was like Abraham one of God's children in his time according to the Law,

for Abraham and others of his descendants, before the Law was a diferent situation. 

If Nicodemus had died before Jesus CHRIST he would have descended to the Bossom of Abraham,  not to the place who hold the dead of the rest of the world, but to the place of the children of God, who were without the life giving spirit of Jesus Christ. 

Waiting for Jesus Christ to descend to them and give them the Life and take them to their new Heavenly Inheritance, to the inheritance of the children with the life. 

That's what Jesus was telling Nicodemus to believe in him after he sees him dieing on the Cross, of course at the right time when the Gospel was preach by the disciples. 

This way he would be born and sealed by the spirit of Jesus Christ the spirit of LIFE. 

And he will be born in the new family of God, those who worship in spirit and truth. 

Is not only about sins, the devil is in this world, and this world is not Heaven, I am taulking for the masses of believers. 

That means we can make our lifes and the devil can help us to make our lifes "like Hell", here on earth. And not all the time. And some times God works in mysterious ways, as in the life of Paul for his divine plan he promise to him that he will see him also in his afflictions. 

Stange as it was , Paul still shaw the Devil in his afflictions till he learn to wait to see our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, who told him see me there also. My grace is sufficient for you. 

That's why one way is to not sin, and draw near to Jesus Christ...

But still we are subject to the afflictions of this life, but this time we are with the help of Jesus Christ and he has given us the Holy Spirit, and his Angels...and many other gifts we may not quite understand. 

If you are at a hockey game, in all that commotion can you tell who is born from the Spirit, believes in Jesus Christ or not. 

Jesus can!!!

And he gives and seals with the spirit of life everyone who believes. 

Today is the day of salvation if you hear the Gospel believe, with the heart man believes unto righteousness of Jesus CHRIST. And recieves the Spirit if Life and a Heavenly Inheritance. 

There is ignorance among the believers, that's why Jesus said to teach them the faith, because they are called to believe as they are.

But dont judge their faith. We are not called to judge their faith by their actions or their words only to guide them towards the light. 

 

 

All who call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. However salvation is not universal less there would be no need for the judgement

[Your closest friendnt]

2 hours ago, JohnD said:

Yeshua HaNotzri  is the only creation of the Heavenly Father (John 1:14b, Hebrews 10:5, Hebrews 1:5)

who God the Word (John 1:1-2 / 1 John 1:1-2) became (John 1:14a).

Yeshua (preincarnate) is the sole Creator of all things created (John 1:1-3, Colossians 1:13-16, ISAIAH 44:24, Genesis 1:1 etc.). 

Clearly he did this on his own (again, Isaiah 44:24) in the company of the Father (1 John 1:1-2) and the Spirit of God (Genesis 1:1-2).

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

This I understand, there is something that we should not ingnore.

Jesus was born within the creation, Mary has to come first, or for those who understand "the prodromos , John the Baptist has to come first, or Moses has to come first, or Abraham...and so on...

So we cannot say that Jesus is the creator of all, unless we explain what we really meant to say. 

Because if someone says; 

When Jesus was born all those things were created, and how he can be the creator of man, and to be the one who had the life in him from the bigining, to be the one who breath the life in the first man Adam...

When Jesus was born and enter our word from a Mary a descendant of Adam, through Abraham...

This is a very legitimate question and should not be ignored. 

The disciples did not just say; the scriptures say so, and they must have refered to the old scripture because they were the ones who wrote the new scripture and those scripture was not available for study to the people they talked to. 

They could not say in John chapter ... Verse ...it says....hope we unterstood this part , so we can go on...

They taught the people by example, one way is by the way they prayed. 

 the way Jesus asked them to pray. 

Something we need to clarify, as to how we can say that Jesus was the creator of all things from the begining and that includes man of course. 

In the old testiment we have the words of the Lord God for the Jews only, or the nation of Israel, as it is defined in the old scripture. 

Now this is it, he is the one who is boasting that he is the creator of all and man. 

So someone may say; do we have two rivals who claim the same thing...

That it is me and not you who created the world and man...

Well if we look at it in this way, it is very easy to say that Jesus is not the Creator, and that the Lord God of the old testiment is the Creator and that's what the Jews believe and the disciples believe, even John ...and the others, and they had that believe for quite some time while they were with Jesus and Jesus knew about that...

Till the time they understood something else and everyone in his own time, such as Philip who came to know about it as the others before the Cross and the resurection..

What was that they understood that when they looked at JESUS or think about him, they said ti themselves that he is the one who created everything and man, yet we have witness his birth in Bethleem...

That's amazing!!!

They understood that they cannot have both at the same time, because both of them are the same person...

The Lord God the Creator of all who left everything to be Emmanuel, to be borned in Bethlehem as Jesus. 

Before we had only the Lord God and now we have only Jesus...

John explains that very well..in John chapter one...

Jesus proclaimed that throut out his ministry "I am the Lord of the Sabbath", I am the light of the world, I am that light whi was in rge homes of Israel when darkness fell in Egypt. 

The light of the minora...

The one who created man from mud, he put mud in the eye of the blind and he went to wash himself in the pool of the one to come.. 

I am the Life and the light of the world.. 

I am the resurection and the way to the Heavenly Father. 

That's why Jesus never called upon the name of the Lord God, but only in the name of the Heavenly Father...

He said to the disciples everything you ask from now on (you do not ask they way you were asking before, in the name of the Lord God, and in the traditions of the Law and the Temple...

From now on you ask only in my name and in the new way by faith..

The same for everyone in the whole world...

He said knew things have come: 

All authority is given to me...everywhere.  

Now the world has a Savior...

The Jews are without God, they are like the Samaritans before, they worship that which the di not understand...

Like the Samaritans they call upon God but he is not there...

He can be found only in Jesus CHRIST, their God is now Jesus Christ. 

Jesus said to them; 

If you do not believe in me, you are without God and you are in your sins...

Even if you do what the Law says and believe like your ancestors before, because of the Messiah Jesus Christ, has come , everything you do has not any value before the Heavenly Father, or Jesus Christ who is above all things and you knew him as your Lord God , which is no more, who left everything to enter our world as one of us, a man...

All we need is Jesus CHRIST, he is our Lord...and the Lord over all, and the Judge of all. 

That's why we have the Heavenly Father, Jesus CHRIST and the Holly Spirit. 

Everyone must be judge according to their faith in Jesus CHRIST, who gives life, his eternal life , the resurected life to everyone who believes.

Jesus also judges everyone according to his works , but for what it is, but no one can have the Life of God the eternal life by works, no one. 

Everyone must hear the Gospel and be judge according to their faith..

Only those who denied to believe are lost. 

Everyone from the first man. 

Jesus is not going to preach the Gospel to anyone who died before him again .

He did that when he died on the Cross and he went in the heart of the earth, to the lowest point...Everyone showed him, or he showed himself to everyone, so the all know that Jesus is above all.

And those of the dead who believe were saved in his name, and together with Jesus recieved their HEAVENLY inheritance, at the same time Jesus did..

 

 

 

2 hours ago, JohnD said:

"The old one -  two"  ...as I like to call it when witnessing to cultists or anyone who challenges the biblical teaching of the triune nature of the one God

John 1:1-2

1 John 1:1-2

Genesis 1:1-2

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

MY POINT:

Jesus is, was, and always shall be the LORD of all. Believing or not. Jesus is Lord God Creator of all that is created in the beginning.

Note: clearly Jesus did not create his own body but that came after the beginning.

In fact the Lordship of Jesus over every created thing is WHY it was he and not the Father or the Holy Spirit who became the God-man and laid that life down

in sacrifice for human sin.

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Side note: I cannot help but make this point having been victimized by those who believe positions of authority only means unlimited power over subordinates...

one is a FOOL who believes it is not first and foremost being held accountable / responsible for that position of authority long before one can take its benefits and

privileges into account.