Is abible aholy book?

[Sam68]

If a holy book contains conflicting verses, do you still consider it holy?

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[ayin jade]

Welcome to worthy.

The bible is the word of God. If there are "conflicting" verses, the problem isnt the verses or the bible, but rather the lack of understanding on our part. As I read the bible, each time I end up learning something, something new that I cant believe I didnt see before. The message in the bible is simple: Jesus saves. Understanding all parts of the revelation of God to man, tends to be a bit difficult to fully grasp.

(a double post, for this thread as well as his identical thread in another forum here.)

[Sam68]

Welcome to worthy.

The bible is the word of God. If there are "conflicting" verses, the problem isnt the verses or the bible, but rather the lack of understanding on our part. As I read the bible, each time I end up learning something, something new that I cant believe I didnt see before. The message in the bible is simple: Jesus saves. Understanding all parts of the revelation of God to man, tends to be a bit difficult to fully grasp.

(a double post, for this thread as well as his identical thread in another forum here.)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

because a holy scripture is a revelation from God. Therefore, it should be

impossible that mistakes or conflicting verses could be found in it.

There are many conflicting verses in it.

In both Testaments. These are some of them:

II Samuel 8:4

And David took from him a thousand chariots and seven hundred horsemen, and

twenty thousand footmen ...

I Chronicles 18:4

And David took from him a thousand chariots and seven thousand horsemen, and

twenty thousand footmen ...

Q. Seven hundred or seven thousand?

I Samuel 10:18

And the Syrians fled before Israel, and David slew the men of seven hundred

chariots of the Syrians, and forty thousand horsemen, and smote Shobach, the

captain of their host, who died there.

I Chronicles 19:18

But the Syrians fled before Israel, and David slew of the Syrians seven thousand

men which fought in chariots, and forty thousand footmen, and killed Shophach,

the captain of their host.

Q. Seven hundred chariots or seven thousand men? Forty thousand horsemen or footmen?

Shobach or Shophach?

II Kings 8:26

Two and twenty years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign.

II Chronicles 22:2

Forty and two years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign. .

Q. Twenty-two or forty-two years?

II Kings 24:8

Jehoiachim was eighteen years old when he began to reign, and he reigned in

Jerusalem three months.

II Chronicles 36:9

Jehoiachim was eight years old when he began to reign, and he reigned three

months and ten days in Jerusalem.

Q. Eighteen years or eight years? Three months or three months and ten days?

II Samuel 24:1

And again the anger of the Lord was kindled against Israel, and he moved David

against them to say: "Go, number Israel and Judah."

I Chronicles 21:1

And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.

Q. Is Satan the Lord of David? May God forbid it

II Samuel 6:23

Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child until the day of her death.

II Samuel 21:8

But the king took the two sons of Rizpah, the daughter of Aiah, whom she bore

unto Saul, Arrnoni and Mephibosheth; and the five sons of Michal, the daughter of

Saul, whom she brought up for Adriel the son of Barzilai the Meholthite.

Q. Did Michal have children or not?

Note: The name Michal in II Samuel 21:8 is still present in The King James version and

The New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures used by the Jehovah's Witnesses, but

has been changed to Merab in The New American Standard Bible (1973

These are only some of the contradictions in the New Testament. You will find more if we

discuss the truth of such doctrines of modern Christianity as the Trinity, the divinity of

Jesus Christ, the divine sonship of Jesus, Original Sin and Atonement, not to mention the

biblical accounts of many prophets engaging in degrading activities: worshipping false

gods and committing incest, rape, and adultery.

please answer all these Qs..

[ayin jade]

In both Testaments. These are some of them:

II Samuel 8:4

And David took from him a thousand chariots and seven hundred horsemen, and

twenty thousand footmen ...

I Chronicles 18:4

And David took from him a thousand chariots and seven thousand horsemen, and

twenty thousand footmen ...

Q. Seven hundred or seven thousand?

Altho I do not have a link, this is the same type of problem as listed below.

I Samuel 10:18

And the Syrians fled before Israel, and David slew the men of seven hundred

chariots of the Syrians, and forty thousand horsemen, and smote Shobach, the

captain of their host, who died there.

I Chronicles 19:18

But the Syrians fled before Israel, and David slew of the Syrians seven thousand

men which fought in chariots, and forty thousand footmen, and killed Shophach,

the captain of their host.

Q. Seven hundred chariots or seven thousand men? Forty thousand horsemen or footmen?

Shobach or Shophach?

http://www.carm.org/diff/2Sam10_18.htm

The fact that this is a copyist error does not invalidate the inspiration or authority of Scripture. Remember, God inspired the originals. They were without error. The copies have problems, though very very few. The copies are copies of inspired documents and, unfortunately, some copyist errors did creep into the manuscripts. However, they do not affect any doctrinal areas and are very rare.

II Kings 8:26

Two and twenty years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign.

II Chronicles 22:2

Forty and two years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign. .

Q. Twenty-two or forty-two years?

http://www.carm.org/diff/2Kings8_26.htm

II Kings 24:8

Jehoiachim was eighteen years old when he began to reign, and he reigned in

Jerusalem three months.

II Chronicles 36:9

Jehoiachim was eight years old when he began to reign, and he reigned three

months and ten days in Jerusalem.

Q. Eighteen years or eight years? Three months or three months and ten days?

http://www.carm.org/diff/2Chron36_9.htm

II Samuel 24:1

And again the anger of the Lord was kindled against Israel, and he moved David

against them to say: "Go, number Israel and Judah."

I Chronicles 21:1

And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.

Q. Is Satan the Lord of David? May God forbid it

http://www.carm.org/diff/2Sam24_1.htm

II Samuel 6:23

Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child until the day of her death.

II Samuel 21:8

But the king took the two sons of Rizpah, the daughter of Aiah, whom she bore

unto Saul, Arrnoni and Mephibosheth; and the five sons of Michal, the daughter of

Saul, whom she brought up for Adriel the son of Barzilai the Meholthite.

Q. Did Michal have children or not?

Note: The name Michal in II Samuel 21:8 is still present in The King James version and

The New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures used by the Jehovah's Witnesses, but

has been changed to Merab in The New American Standard Bible (1973

http://www.carm.org/diff/2Sam6_23.htm

[ayin jade]

Sam, where did you get your "facts"? Is this your own research? Instead of looking for rather insignificant things like this, you should check out the claims of Jesus. He said He is God. He came here to pay for the sins that keep all of us apart from the Lord. That is the kind of important information you need to investigate.

Sam, who is Jesus to you? Do you believe in the Lord?

[Leonard]

Sam 68:

I hope that what people are trying to indicate when they talk about the 'inspiration' of the Bible, is the inspiration of the autographs. I don't think anybody believes every copyists every copy was inspired.....

To have left in the contradictory material you have pointed out, shows how faithful the translators of KJV were. I mean, they could have taken the tack of 'changing' these embarrasing little details.

None of these copyist errors touches upon any particular critical doctrine of the Faith. You say there are 'more' if we want to talk about these critical doctrines, but yet you do not provide a single example.......

By the way, Michal was married to another man many years before she was married to David. The fact she never had children with David, does not mean she never had children, so that 'contradiction' is pretty iffy.

Over all, for a book which was completed some 2400 years ago, after having been written over the course of 1000 years by 15 or 20 authors, in two different languages, and then copied by hand for the next 1800 years or so, if these few scribal glosses are all the errors you can find, I think that demonstrates a REMARKABLE preservation. Hardly the stuff of honest intellectual debate!

ARE THESE YOUR BIG GUNS?

[Sam68]

Sam, where did you get your "facts"? Is this your own research? Instead of looking for rather insignificant things like this, you should check out the claims of Jesus. He said He is God. He came here to pay for the sins that keep all of us apart from the Lord. That is the kind of important information you need to investigate.

Sam, who is Jesus to you? Do you believe in the Lord?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Excuse me!!!!

As you said THESE ARE FACTS...

Did Jesus ever claim to be "Mighty God" or "God"?

From Sheikh Ahmed Deedat's work; may Allah Almighty always be pleased with him:

Let us look at John 10:30 "I (Jesus) and the Father are One." This verse is severely misunderstood and is taken out of context, because beginning at verse John 10:23 we read (in the context of 10:30) about Jesus talking to the Jews. In verse John 10:28-30, talking about his followers as his sheep, he states: "...Neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father who gave them me, is greater than all, and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and the Father are One."

These verses prove only that Jesus and the Father are one in that no man can pluck the sheep out of either's hand. It does not at all state that Jesus is God's equal in everything. In fact the words of Jesus, " My Father, who gave them me is Greater than ALL...," in John 10:29 completely negates this claim, otherwise we are left with a contradiction just a sentence apart. All includes everyone even Jesus.

Also let us look at verse John 17:20-22 "That the ALL may be made ONE. Like thou Father art in me, I in thee, that they may be ONE in us. I in them, they in me, that they may be perfect in ONE". In this verse, the same word ONE used, the Greek, HEN is used, not only to describe Jesus and the Father but to describe Jesus, the Father and eleven of the twelve disciples of Jesus. So here if that implies equality, we have a unique case of 13 Gods.

Of the verse in question, "I and the Father are One" in (John 10:30), we also need to take note of the verses following the 30th verse in the text. In those verses, the Jews accuse Jesus falsely of claiming to be God by these words. He however replies, proving their accusation wrong by their own text: "The Jews answered him saying,'For a good work we stone thee not, but for blasphemy, and because that thou being a man, makest thyself a God '" (John 10:33).

Jesus replies to this accusation saying: "Jesus answered them, 'Is it not written in your Law, "I said ye are gods. If He can call them gods, unto whom the word of God came, say ye of him whom the Father hath sanctified and sent into the world, "Thou blasphemeth," because I said I am the son of God?'" (John 10:34-36).

Let us look at Acts 2:22 "O you men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a MAN approved of God among you..." Peter in the Book of Acts testifies about Jesus. Jesus thus even to his disciples, as to early Christians, not poisoned by Pauline doctrine, was a man, not a God.

Question: In John 10:30 Jesus says, "I and the Father are one [hen]." Doesn't this show that they are one in essence?

This statement does not suggest either a dual or triune deity. What John's Jesus meant by the word hen ("one") becomes clear from his prayer concerning the apostles: "That they may be one [hen], just as we are one [hen]" (John 17:22), which means that they should be united in agreement with one another as he (Jesus) is always united in agreement with God, as stated: "I [Jesus] always do the things that are pleasing to Him [God]" (John 8:29).

There is thus no implication that Jesus and God, or the twelve apostles are to be considered as of one essence.

[ayin jade]

Sam, where did you get your "facts"? Is this your own research? Instead of looking for rather insignificant things like this, you should check out the claims of Jesus. He said He is God. He came here to pay for the sins that keep all of us apart from the Lord. That is the kind of important information you need to investigate.

Sam, who is Jesus to you? Do you believe in the Lord?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Excuse me!!!!

As you said THESE ARE FACTS...

Did Jesus ever claim to be "Mighty God" or "God"?

Yes He did. If you read the gospels (have you read them?) you will see over and over again where Jesus does clearly tell the Jews that He is God. It is why the Jews tried to stone Him time and time again.

I answered your questions. Would you please tell me who Jesus is to you? I would like to know.

[eric]

Oh dear, oh dear. Watch tower material.

[nebula]

Sam68 -

As I understand it, when you signed up for membership so you could post here, you should have been given a choice to declare your faith as "Christian" or "not a Christian" (probably worded differently; I haven't seen it since this is a newer feature).

You can only post in this section of the Board if you declared yourself as a "Christian."

Tell me, did you lie?