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I think my church may be dying. What can I do?

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1 minute ago, Betha said:

i think it's just an expression he likes to use...maybe hoping what he says will be heard....it's nothing serious in mo.

Yeah. My "No chewing gum in the choir loft" was an attempt at humour.  Next I was referring to actual choir lofts as a feature of buildings.

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2 minutes ago, Michael37 said:

Yeah. My "No chewing gum in the choir loft" was an attempt at humour.  Next I was referring to actual choir lofts as a feature of buildings.

yes, people use the strangest 'handles to be known by...it can lead to confusion...understood only by themselves. So be it !

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Blood Bought 1953 said:

 

Understanding that repentance did not work, why not do it God ‘s way? Introduce them to the new Reality this side of the Cross .Thanks to what Jesus accomplished on the Cross, all of the world’s sins have been payed for , you are totally forgiven and ready for Heaven.All you have to do to “ cash in” on what has already been done is to believe that Jesus died for your sins and rose from the dead on the third day.This Gospel Of 100% Grace would stir up gratitude and love that would result in changed lives that came from the heart.A new heart that wants to please God.....nah, that could never work.....we all know if people could commit a sin and “ get away with it”, without the ground opening up to take them to Hell,God would have no way to keep people in line! Better to stick with the old sin, repent ,sin repent,sin repent that has been so successful in the past.Ever since Moses gave the Law.  “ we will do everything the Law demands” declared the Israelites.The Fear Of God was never more intense than it was at the base of Mt.Sinai. Not even  “ that” worked.Once God proved Satan a liar by showing the knowledge of good and evil will not “ make you like God”, he put His better plan in place— Grace.Knowing we are forgiven is the only thing that will produce the Love that will compel us to obey God.....obeying because we are New Creations, and not because we believe God is keeping score.God IS keeping score in a sense, but there are only two scores......100 or 0. What do you think your score is ?

That sounds real pretty.    Too bad it's nothing more than bovine excrement.  What we see happening in the church is far from what you presume.  All I know of your words is what is apparent in their meaning.  You write theory, but do not understand practical reality.  The Kingdom of God does not dwell in theories and hypotheticals.  Churches do NOT teach the true definition and application of GRACE.  Instead they teach a lawLESS form of religion.  

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A LICENSE TO SIN.

"they have a form  of religion but deny its power." - 2 Timothy 3:5a

The power that's referred to in scripture is restraint - moral restraint from sin and from closet wickedness.  All moral restraint has been revoked in the church, which now teaches political correctness, situational ethics, happy talk, and empty grace.  Therefore the Holy Spirit, the Ruach Ha-Kodesh, has abandoned many churches.  Their candles described in Revelation have been snuffed out by their own denial of the inspiration of God and of the righteousness He demands of each of us.

Many say they are saved by grace, but live like hell.

This is a hypocritical lie.  If actions speak of the intent of the heart, then they know not grace.  Neither do they acknowledge God who gives it.  Only marginalized Christians think they're getting away with something that all the world, as well as God, sees clearly.

"Their feet rush to shed blood, in their ways are ruin and misery, and the way of peace they do not know. There is no fear of God before their eyes." - Romans 3:15-18

No one can be saved apart from the Law.   Following the guidance of the Law unto salvation, God grants the Ruach SO AS to help the penitent sinner live a life of personal sacrifice and denial which alone is pleasing to God.  This gift of the Ruach is called grace.  Grace is not license to sin.  It is help to live according to God's Law.  Believers are called to take up their cross when they follow Christ. (Matthew 16:24)  They have no authority to justify laziness and sin by claiming they're saved by grace.  Do you not know O sinner that grace is a two-edged sword?  

For it is time for judgment to begin in the house of God.  - 1 Peter 4:17

Part of the judgment is exercised when the Ruach Ha-Kodesh abandons a dead congregation.  Churches today teach neither Law, nor repentance, nor the true effect and power of grace as enabled by the Ruach.   God isn't a vending machine wherein one inserts a prayer and gets a prize.  Most churches do not teach truth.  Instead they endlessly reiterate buzz words and religious slogans.  The reader knows what I'm referring to.  No one who has endured a Christian worship service these days has left the building without hearing these buzz words and slogans vomited upon the congregation, who in turn accepts them as truth (only because they've heard them a thousand times before).

"All effective propaganda must be limited to a very few points and must harp on these in slogans until the last member of the public understands what you want him to understand." - Adolph Hitler

The only people they fool is themselves.   Like all fools they may be walking into a trap of judgment they've set for themselves.

"It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God." - Hebrews 10:31

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

Edited by choir loft
verbal tense
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33 minutes ago, choir loft said:

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A LICENSE TO SIN.

Amen!

Most all the world, and churches, SIN WITHOUT A LICENSE,  and without repentance. (thus lost)

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Betha said:

If your 'revivals have been that great and successful how is it we are in a worse state today than at the beginning ??? and yet you insist on another ? what do you think that will achieve that others have not ? why would it bring REPENTANCE now when it has not before ?

because that is not what revival can do, it can not lead to Repentane, only a reviving of the same old things we had and did before....it can not lead to anything NEW....which is what is needed, beginning with REPENTANCE ! Repentance of all we are doing WRONG now !

How long will you put a Band-aid on a deadly decease to heal it ?

According to the Bible, as well as secular history, a revival is a necessary event of every generation.  

When it happens the culture of a nation and a people continues to blossom.  When it doesn't happen a culture and nation lapses into decline.   If unchecked by another generational revival the trend will inevitably lead to cultural warfare and extreme political disruption.  This trend may now be observed in the culture wars and political grid-lock of the United States.  

It may be difficult for the simple minded to grasp, but the evidence of decline of every empire in history is first observed in internal division.  Internal divisiveness in the culture and political structure of America has now reached potentially destructive levels.  If unchecked a serious break is inevitable.  Many experts both secular and religious believe America has passed the point of no return - a point in history where such a reversal may be possible.  The only thing that can save America is revival.  Unfortunately the disciples of satan refuse to accept revival as a legitimate vehicle for national and personal salvation.  Nevertheless history proves it can be done and ought to be done.

According to the Bible, as well as secular history, the revival spirit is NOT automatically transmitted from one generation to another.  Each and every subsequent generation must experience the call to refreshment in righteousness as inspired by God.  Each generation is responsible for its own spiritual destiny - international glory or ignominious destruction.

Revivals ARE great and successful, but only within the limits of the generation that experiences it.  Every child must be taught anew of the things of God.  If it is not, it will not know the right way to go.  So it is with all generations throughout history.   Those generations that know not God suffer destruction as a consequence of their own foolishness, stupidity, perversions and greed.  It is a spiritual principle that the judgment the wicked experience is the trap they set for themselves.

The "something new" you speak of is a new vision of holiness by a current generation that has no idea what it means.  In each generation the slate begins clean.   What shall be written upon it - good or evil?  It is up to that generation to write its own history.  Only fools blame their parents for the consequences of their own sin.  

I see that your arguments do not favor revival or the forward march of the Kingdom of God.  Instead you continually write apologies for the kingdom of satan.   There is no good end for that in which you hope - only the Second Death for those who refuse the salvation God offers and only national disgrace and dissolution that moral decay demands.

The decision to abandon the time honored ways of God are those of every new generation, as well as the decision to accept salvation (revival).  Revival is nothing less than the rekindling of the flame of righteousness among those of a new generation.   You are of the opinion that such a thing is evil when in fact it is good.  This is also the way of satan - to reverse the meaning intent and use of common words.  When hope becomes despair hell is not far behind.

You shall have your reward, whatever path you choose to take.   Choose wisely.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

Edited by choir loft
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40 minutes ago, choir loft said:

Revival is nothing less than the rekindling of the flame of righteousness among those of a new generation.   You are of the opinion that such a thing is evil when in fact it is good.

Maybe not always.  The last 'big' revival of note (in contrast and comparison) was the toronto laughing debacle (but accepted as a "move of god" all around the world) 

and THAT so-called revival ruined fellowships around the world that had been in place for years or decades and had apparently been doing well,  until the toronto false spirit came upon them....

LIkewise, in these last days we live in,  the enemy has amassed an unbelievable number of people (in 'church') to do his bidding,  and to FAKE a REVIVAL,  which will deceive even more multitudes around the world,

and will kill the true believers, without mercy and without justice.  

It will be called a revival.  It will be called good (by all the world).  It will be deadly for almost everyone.

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I'm in agreement with both of my brothers, Choir loft and Blood Bought, ...Choir loft is explaining what is necessary in the Church, revival, ...while Blood bought is explaining what takes place in the Church after the revival has started, ...teaching. 

However, the Jesus People Movement revival is not dead, I became a member of that revival in '86 and I'm a member of a church in France that started a revival in France in '91.

There are two types of revivals, one that starts inside of the church and revives the church, ...and one that starts outside of the church that brings people to Christ , ...Choir loft gave two good examples, however, the Jesus People Movement revival was a revival inside of the church.

In 1906 at the Azusa Street Revival the Holy Spirit poured out His Agape love, in the Jesus People Movement Revival He not only poured out His Agape Love again, but He also gave the church His Method to teach the Word, ...book by book, chapter by chapter and verse by verse. His purpose in doing this was not only to take back His rightful place as the God given Authority in the church (removing the decision from the pastor what subject he would decide to teach on), ...but also to feed and prepare His church, in the last few moments it has on planet earth, to purify itself Luke 21:28, 1 John 3:2, 3.

I find this taking place in my own life, as I see Bible Prophecy concerning the end times of the Church Age falling into place, I see the world as a stage, ...a giant chess board, with the game currently in "check," the next player in the game is Putin and his next move will result in "checkmate."    

Because I can see that from being taught from the Word, book by book, chapter by chapter, verse by verse I find myself looking back to the morning and evening sacrifices performed in the temple, ...in the mornings I thank Father for sending His Son to die in my place and I relinquish my right and my will to guide my day and give His Holy Spirit the authority to perform His Will in me during the day, ...and in the evening I find myself asking Father to search my heart for the iniquity of my old carnal nature and reveal to me my sin, in so doing I find I physically sin less, but I spiritually confess more, ...yes, ...the Jesus People Movement Revival is still alive and active in me!

Lord bless

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On 6/13/2019 at 5:37 AM, simplejeff said:

Maybe not always.  The last 'big' revival of note (in contrast and comparison) was the toronto laughing debacle (but accepted as a "move of god" all around the world) 

NOT in the TRUE Church, the Holy Spirit has kept His Church pure, clean and free from defilement. Jude 1: 24, 25

The Toronto experience was the first wave, with Pensacola the second wave, and Kansas City the third wave, followed by Redding CA, ...those churches that accepted these heresies form the devil are an example/explanation of those that will stand before Jesus and argue with Him, ...but, but, but, ...Lord..., NOT! Matt 7:21-23 

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