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R. Hartono

Does “Counted Worthy to Escape” Prove the Pretrib. Rapture?

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14 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

The tribulation meaning in the above verse is for the church in Smyrna, not the same with the Great Tribulation which shall come upon all the world, as described here :

Rev 3:10  Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Another mis taught idea .   Those seven churches actually EXISTED in pauls day .   Ephesus was one of them .     This putting churches into some kind of age

IS mans invention .     Those seven churches existed in the days of paul , john  , peter .  They were largely located in asia minor and some in jersualem and etc .

Lets all start over , IN only bibles .   First , tonight I want us to all do something .

Go and bury all books and etc and let us pick up ONLY the bible again .  

Men have truly destroyed a lot of things , wrested scrips unto their own destruction .  Taught acronyms , INSTEAD of CHRIST

taught and instructed by mens hermes and etc .   

Let all go to a funeral and die to self and pick up ONLY the bible .    Watch what happens .   

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23 minutes ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

Lets look back again at the very question this man asked .   Does worthy to escape all these things , PROVE a pre trib rapture .

NO .  

And they rejoiced that they were worthy to suffer shame for his name .

When we are persecuted , killed for his name sake , cast into prison ,  We are being counted WORTHY to SUFFER FOR HIM .

Pre trib is not true .    For it is the righteous JUDGMENT OF GOD that we be COUNTED WORTHY to SUFFER tribulation FOR THE KINGDOM .

Folks are missing many things these days , due to a pre trib teaching man .   

And that we through MUCH tribulation should enter into the kingdom of heaven .   Paul warned folks .  

But today with pre trib , somehow we are counted worthy when we escape the worlds persecution or tribulation .

Not the case .

Its very clear in revelations , AS YOU WELL KNOW ALREADY ,     that the beast , His tribulation cometh against the true saints .

And every time the Actual wrath of GOD is mentioned , ITS against those who had WORSHIPPED the beast , took his mark

Etc etc .      Its high time folks start praying and reading the bible for themselves .    

the term "great tribulation" refers to grapes in a vat being pressed from all sides.  why oh why would God be pressing grapes in a vat with bitter fruit? 

two words... get ready. 

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9 minutes ago, Cletus said:

the term "great tribulation" refers to grapes in a vat being pressed from all sides.  why oh why would God be pressing grapes in a vat with bitter fruit? 

two words... get ready. 

SPOT ON RIGHT CLETUS .      AND right again .     GET READY ,  the fiery trials of our FAITH are about to be UNLEASHED .

And many will be killed for the true faith .   OH but let patience have her perfect work , let us endure faithful and may we grow even more as our faith is refined .

NO FEAR OF MAN .   ONLY HOPE IN GOD who is GOOD AT ALL TIMES .    What a merciful GOD we serve that HE would even ALLOW us to be counted worthy

to suffer shame for CHRIST .    I think folks have forgotten something .

JESUS said , BLESSED ARE YOU WHEN YOU ARE PERSECUTED .   but pre trib acts like its a curse to go under or through the tribulation .

HEY CHURCH lets heed JESUS .  BLESSED are YOU when you aer hated

BLESSED are you when you are persecuted , beaten , mocked , scourged for HIS NAME SAKE .

THIS IS a blessing and folks got no idea of the mercy of GOD .   FOR better is it to suffer for HIM than to be without chastisement .

ITS the RIGHTEOUS JUDGMENT of GOD to allow us to be persecuted and killed for the SAKE OF OUR LORD , for the KINGDOM .

Paul knew it .    Now I agree no chastening might FEEL GOOD ,  I mean whips on the back wont be feeling good

or punches on the head wont feel good . BUT if we take whatever is coming against us PAITENLY and let patience have her perfect work

BLESSED ARE WE .     As I have long said , ITS A HONOR AND A WIN WIN to serve the LIVING GOD .     YES IT IS .    LET all rejoice in the LORD and fear not a thing men can do

or will do to us .    JUST LEAP FOR JOY when you are persecuted ,    AS JESUS SAID TO DO .  AND HE WILL GIVE US all the conosoling , strength  inner peace and joy to DO SO.
GOD IS GOOD ALL THE TIME .  NO MATTER what we suffer , GOD IS GOOD .    I could sing this SONG ALL NIGHT . 

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57 minutes ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

NO FEAR OF MAN . 

to suffer shame for CHRIST .    

The 10 virgins fear no man either

The foolish virgins suffer shame of being left.

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, R. Hartono said:

The 10 virgins fear no man either

The foolish virgins suffer shame of being left.

Is this truly how you are going to try and sway me to believe in pre trib .   Cause if it is ,   Do not frustrate yourself .  This makes no sense man .

Show me in scrip where I was wrong .  Not in what YOU think something says or etc in a parable .

 

Edited by frienduff thaylorde

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11 hours ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

And they rejoiced that they were worthy to suffer shame for his name .

When we are persecuted , killed for his name sake , cast into prison ,  We are being counted WORTHY to SUFFER FOR HIM .

Pre trib is not true .    For it is the righteous JUDGMENT OF GOD that we be COUNTED WORTHY to SUFFER tribulation FOR THE KINGDOM .

Folks are missing many things these days , due to a pre trib teaching man .   

And that we through MUCH tribulation should enter into the kingdom of heaven .   Paul warned folks .  

But today with pre trib , somehow we are counted worthy when we escape the worlds persecution or tribulation .

Not the case .

Its very clear in revelations , AS YOU WELL KNOW ALREADY ,     that the beast , His tribulation cometh against the true saints .

True.  God tells us explicitly in Revelation 13:10 and 14:11-12 who it is that keeps the word of His perseverance.

  • If anyone is destined for captivity, to captivity he goes; if anyone kills with the sword, with the sword he must be killed. Here is the perseverance and the faith of the saints.
  • And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”  Here is the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.

Those who refuse the mark and refuse to worship the image are those who keep the word of His perseverance, even if it means imprisonment or death.  It is those people who will be kept from the time of testing.

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34 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

It is those people who will be kept from the time of testing.

Note that there are still, and always have been,  "fiery trials" ,  since the first century,  as written....

Suffering,  persecution for all who stand up for the truth,  beatings,  arrests,   humiliating treatment,  scoffing,  belittlement,  accusations,   torture,  execution.

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4 hours ago, simplejeff said:

Note that there are still, and always have been,  "fiery trials" ,  since the first century,  as written....

Suffering,  persecution for all who stand up for the truth,  beatings,  arrests,   humiliating treatment,  scoffing,  belittlement,  accusations,   torture,  execution.

Jeff.     Folks need to really grasp what being counted worthy for the kingdom for which we suffer , MEANS .

DID the early apostels ever teach once , that those who live godly WILL be KEPT from persecution . OR DID they all say , THOSE WHO LIVE GODLY WILL SUFFER PERSECUTION .

Exactly .

Folks don't realize that to suffer for Christ , suffer persecution , hate , prison and tribulation .  IS NOT a curse for those who did evil , BUT A BLESSING for those who did well .

Church is getting things backwards these days .     What apostle did not suffer at the hands of men .  They all did and so did many and still do many even today .

Paul said something , IF you deal with chastenings , GOD deals with ye as sons .  But if ye be without chastisement of some form ,  YE BE BASTARDS and NOT sons .

This whole pre trib concept is off .     The only thing we don't Go under IS THE WRATH OF GOD .  BUT the wrath of men , of the beast , of the system , of the world , WE DO GO UNDER THAT .

ALWAYS has this been and shall it be TILL OUR LORD DO come to destroy the wicked , to sever the wicked from among the just

IN fact it hits a climax near the end .   It gets so bad , there is a one world  total mindset to rid every lamb it can from off the face of the earth .

Tribulations don't get less , nor go away ,     They shall get only worse , till the ultimate climax of the largest tribulation ever wherein many lambs shall die .

But then cometh the end of all that .   CHRIST shall return and the beast and false prophet shall be cast alive into a lake buring with fire

and all their armies and those who had worshiped the beast , shall be destroyed under His wrath .

Till then ,  we better mount up IN THE LORD ,  because I warn us all ,   WE got many pretenders in high places who act as though they are of us , but are nothing but wolves in sheeps attire

and they all Do the bidding of an entity that has filled this house full of dead mens bones and rotted fig doctrine , so vile to even sniff it can cause death .

We got a high one in a high place and the world , even many churches , the religions of the world , ARE DOING ITS BIDDING .    IT is as judas

and hollers unity , unity , enter into my chambers and let us have world peace and unity . But the blind who do enter , know not it is the chambers of death

and its light is darkness and it is great darkness .     And its end and all who do enter will be the second death .    

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4 hours ago, Last Daze said:

True.  God tells us explicitly in Revelation 13:10 and 14:11-12 who it is that keeps the word of His perseverance.

  • If anyone is destined for captivity, to captivity he goes; if anyone kills with the sword, with the sword he must be killed. Here is the perseverance and the faith of the saints.
  • And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”  Here is the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.

Those who refuse the mark and refuse to worship the image are those who keep the word of His perseverance, even if it means imprisonment or death.  It is those people who will be kept from the time of testing.

YES .  that is it .  These will be kept from the wrath of GOD , And of the LAMB when HE COMES From on high to tread the great winepress of the wrath of GOD .

See , let us notice that any time it speaks of the judgments FROM GOD ,   it is against those who had taken the mark  , worshipped the beast . IN fact no matter

how often GOD sends this judgment , IT SAYS they repented NOT .   This great testing IS the wrath of GOD against the ungodly who believed the lie and shall be damned

For they rejected the love of the truth and had pleasure in unrighteousness .    THUS GOD SENDS .     Okay lets examine this .

GOD SENDS a STRONG DELUSION .      Now lets examine why and what its purpose is .    Before I go on , I must tell us all ,  MOST have no idea GOD will get to this point .

BUT HE WILL . HE has been very longsuffering desiring none to perish ,   But the time of the end will come .

Okay HERE is both why the delusion is sent and what it is .      ANd GOD shall send them strong delusion that they should ,    ONE ,  BELEIVE A LIE

and TWO  BE DAMNED .      DID I jus say that .   YES , but paul said it first .

And WHY ,   because THEY REJECTED ,   as in THEY DID IT TO THEMSELVES . THEY rejected the love of the truth and had pleasure in SIN .    just as many do today

calling all sorts of abominations LOVE and having pleasure and denying HIM in every work , being abominable and reprobate unto every good work .

Folks . TIME IS RUNNINGOUT and a delusion has been sent .    BEWARE the Delusion of the all inclusion ,  SHE IS THE ONE .  SHE IS THE ONE that will cause the world

as did babel , to unite as one all under a COMMON PURPOSE .     ITS BAD NEWS and its a delusion no man , woman , no not even a donkey would want to go under .

Because its end , IS TEH SECOND DEATH .     We better be on guard , being both viligant and diligent .     And seeing we KNOW these things before

better ALL take heed lest any does be taken with the error of the wicked and fall from his own steadfastness .    The preachers of today and massive churches

wont warn .  SO the FEW WILL .     For many will be taken in its lure .  

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Personally, I studied the Tribulation in Bible Scholl back right after they invented dirt. I know there are the Pre-trib, Mid-Trib, and Post-Trib schools of thought but actually I don't think I may live to see none of them now. Even if I do I'm too busy trying to keep my eyes on Jesus to really worry about it. I put it all in God's hands long before most of the people alive today were born so the worst thing that could happen is someone would kill me and I have been ready for that for decades. I wanted to immigrate to Israel in early 1973 but since I'm not Jewish I was refused entry. I offered to fight in the IDF and showed my training in the US Army in field artillery, as well as air defense missile systems but to no avail. 

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