The Difference between Dan. 70th week & the Tribulation.

[douggg]

4 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi douggg,

The first trumpet is the `sudden destruction.` All of the green grass is burnt, and a third of the trees. This deals with the food production. From there things begin to escalate as `pains upon a pregnant woman.`

Marilyn. 

Marilyn, the birth pains for Israel, began when Israel became a nation again in 1948 [a nation born in one day] and was immediately attacked by the Arab nations.     And have experience repeated pains in the series of wars that have followed.      The six day war, in 1967, which Israel gained control of Jerusalem again.

In the 7 years, near the middle, Israel will be delivered, receiving Salvation the Jews finally believing on Jesus [Revelation 12:10].

It has to do with Isaiah 66:

7 Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child.  

8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed [the pains of the wars] , she brought forth her children.   [the Jews become Christians in the middle of the 7 years, Revelation 12:10]

9 Shall I bring to the birth, and not cause to bring forth? saith the LORD: shall I cause to bring forth, and shut the womb? saith thy God.

Verse 8 is indicating that the fig tree generation is when Israel becomes a nation again, and Jerusalem is back in the hand of the Jews.    Verse 9 is saying that God is going to deliver the Jews, Israel.

 

 

Edited August 21, 2019 by douggg

[Marilyn C]

23 hours ago, douggg said:

Marilyn, the birth pains for Israel, began when Israel became a nation again in 1948 [a nation born in one day] and was immediately attacked by the Arab nations.     And have experience repeated pains in the series of wars that have followed.      The six day war, in 1967, which Israel gained control of Jerusalem again.

 

 

Hi douggg,

Scripture clearly tells us what the birth pains are -

`For nation shall rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences and earthquakes in various places. ALL THESE ARE THE BEGINNING OF SORROWS, `  (Matt. 24: 7 & 8) (sorrows - as in birth pangs).

Marilyn.

[douggg]

23 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi douggg,

Scripture clearly tells us what the birth pains are -

`For nation shall rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences and earthquakes in various places. ALL THESE ARE THE BEGINNING OF SORROWS, `  (Matt. 24: 7 & 8) (sorrows - as in birth pangs).

Marilyn.

Hi Mariyn,

The Isiah 66:7-9 distinctively speaks about a woman giving birth and the pains involved in the text.    Matthew 24:7-8 does not elaborate in the text in like manner.

 

Edited August 23, 2019 by douggg

[Marilyn C]

18 hours ago, douggg said:

Hi Mariyn,

The Isiah 66:7-9 distinctively speaks about a woman giving birth and the pains involved in the text.    Matthew 24:7-8 does elaborate in the text in like manner.

 

Hi douggg,

Yes Isa. 66: 7 & 8 speaks of the nation of Israel being `born,` `as soon as Zion travailed, she gave birth to her children.` 

This is NOT what the Lord is saying in Matthew 24: 8, `All these are the beginning of sorrows, (birth pangs).` The Lord here is speaking of the troubles in the nations and how those troubles are just the start of terrible events that will escalate & have not happened nor ever will again. (Matt. 24: 21)

Marilyn.

 

[douggg]

1 hour ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi douggg,

Yes Isa. 66: 7 & 8 speaks of the nation of Israel being `born,` `as soon as Zion travailed, she gave birth to her children.` 

This is NOT what the Lord is saying in Matthew 24: 8, `All these are the beginning of sorrows, (birth pangs).` The Lord here is speaking of the troubles in the nations and how those troubles are just the start of terrible events that will escalate & have not happened nor ever will again. (Matt. 24: 21)

Marilyn.

 

Hi Marilyn,

I made a typo mistake in my previous post - of leaving out the "not".     I went back and corrected my post.

 

Regarding Isaiah 66:7-9, it is actually a prophecy made up of several parts.

 

"7 Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child."   This part is referring to when Jesus was born into the world.   "Unto us a child is born".        But different than the normal process of child birth, Zion had not incurred the pain of travailing before child birth - metaphorically in this part of the prophesy.    The pain will come when she delivers her other children, the Jews, in the end times.

 

"8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once?....."  This part is about Israel becoming a nation again in one day, May 15, 1948.    The Jews having come from the nations of the world, following WWII.

 

".....for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children."    This part reflects the parable of the fig tree generation, which during that generation (our generation) the Jews, her children,  will become believers in Jesus.

The travailing of Zion - Israel has experienced the pains, in the form of the wars she has gone through since 1948.   "for as soon as" indicates that it will not be generations  away, once Israel will have become a nation again, May 15, 1948, that the Jews will become believers in Jesus.

The worst of the pains will hit Zion when the Antichrist betrays them, by going into the temple, sitting, claiming to have achieved God-hood.    At that very point, the Jews eyes will be opened and they will believe on Jesus.    But the pain of the Antichrist betraying them will last through the great tribulation, until Jesus returns to save them, physically.   They will have already been saved spiritually at that point, by believing on Jesus.

 

"9 Shall I bring to the birth, and not cause to bring forth? saith the LORD: shall I cause to bring forth, and shut the womb? saith thy God."    God is going to make it happen.

 

 

Edited August 23, 2019 by douggg

[Marilyn C]

15 hours ago, douggg said:

Hi Marilyn,

 

.....

The travailing of Zion - Israel has experienced the pains, in the form of the wars she has gone through since 1948.   "for as soon as" indicates that it will not be generations  away, once Israel will have become a nation again, May 15, 1948, that the Jews will become believers in Jesus.

The worst of the pains will hit Zion when the Antichrist betrays them, by going into the temple, sitting, claiming to have achieved God-hood.    At that very point, the Jews eyes will be opened and they will believe on Jesus.    But the pain of the Antichrist betraying them will last through the great tribulation, until Jesus returns to save them, physically.   They will have already been saved spiritually at that point, by believing on Jesus.

"9 Shall I bring to the birth, and not cause to bring forth? saith the LORD: shall I cause to bring forth, and shut the womb? saith thy God."    God is going to make it happen.

 

Hi douggg,

Zechariah tells us that it is the Lord who will open their eyes when He comes and then they will realise who He is and mourn for Him.

`And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on me whom they have pierced; they will mourn for Him as one mourns for His only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a first-born.` (Zech. 12: 10)

Marilyn.

[douggg]

6 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi douggg,

Zechariah tells us that it is the Lord who will open their eyes when He comes and then they will realise who He is and mourn for Him.

`And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on me whom they have pierced; they will mourn for Him as one mourns for His only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a first-born.` (Zech. 12: 10)

Marilyn.

I don't think it will be a surprise to them that it is Jesus, when he appears.  It will be emotional though.    Keep in mind that the Jews have rejected Jesus for 2000 years.   And during the first part of the 7 years, they will have embraced the Antichrist, who that person will be speaking against Jesus, the whole time.

So when the day of reckoning comes and their so called messiah, the Antichrist, betrays them, that when the blinders come off and with a broken and contrite spirit they appeal to Jesus, that in and of itself will be very emotional for the Jews.   And then what follows is being worn down by the beast and the ordeal of the great tribulation, so that when Jesus appears they are going to be emotionally overcome.   Right now, I don't think the Jews physiologically see Jesus as one of them.    That's my humble opinion.

 

Edited August 24, 2019 by douggg

[Marilyn C]

1 hour ago, douggg said:

I don't think it will be a surprise to them that it is Jesus, when he appears.  .....

 

Hi douggg,

`And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication...` (Zech. 12: 10)

It is only by the Holy Spirit that these people of Israel turn to the Lord.

Marilyn.

[douggg]

3 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi douggg,

`And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication...` (Zech. 12: 10)

It is only by the Holy Spirit that these people of Israel turn to the Lord.

Marilyn.

Yes, it is by the Holy Spirit that anyone is drawn to Jesus.

But, once saved, the intensity level of the Holy Spirit's work taking hold in different believers life varies, depending upon one's zeal for God. 

  Jesus spoke about this issue in the parable of the seed and the different types of soil.

Edited August 24, 2019 by douggg

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, Marilyn and douggg.

You two really amaze me. This back and forth conversation is "straining at the gnat and swallowing the camel!" You're both quite wrong about Matthew 24 (and Mark 13, and Luke 21, the Olivet Discourse); so, consequently you'll continue to get things quite wrong about your conclusions.

You both really need to learn the place that God has in His heart for Israel before making these ridiculous claims.

douggg, the details of your chain of events in your handy little chart are WAY off! But, you first must let your interpretations of prophetic passages go and LISTEN to the prophets instead! Don't just pick and choose verses out of a passage of Scripture; in fact, don't even take a chapter out of a prophetic book! READ IT IN ITS CONTEXT! And, absolutely DON'T attempt to piece these prophetic passages into your scenario! You'll end up trying to FORCE Scripture into your mold, and that's called "eisegesis," "reading INTO" the Scriptures what was never intended by either the author of the book or the Author of the Bible!

Instead, you BOTH must learn to let your scenarios go, sit back with a couple of hours of free time, and READ THROUGH a WHOLE book of the Bible in a single sitting, and if you must look up too much at a time, try it in another version so that it flows for you, and actually LISTEN to what is being said! Let God's Word speak TO YOU, without your interruptions; THAT'S called "exegesis," "reading OUT" from the Scriptures into your mind.

With great love for the both of you and deep prayer for your understanding,

Retrobyter