The fulness of the Gentiles

[Alive]

14 minutes ago, choir loft said:

Now you know.

They don't.......think.

Bottom line is that Christians and especially Protestants hate Jews and anything that smells of Jew LAW.   Every ounce of their intellectually challenged dogma is skewed against the chosen of God.  If they have to twist words and phrases and Biblical thought to their ends they will do it.  The problem is that when they get done pinning every Jew they know against the wall they forget that their forebears did it to Christ first - for crucifixion was a Roman/Gentile form of public execution, not Jewish.   How do they feel about that ancient execution?  They hold the dead guy on a stick and parade it around in their ceremonies as if the Son of God was a trophy of war.   Their Masses ceremonially murder god all over again - and again - and again so that priests can steal His power and become their own kind of demigod with authority to forgive, heal and admit or reject from a heavenly reward (provided you allow them personal time with their children).  

The church is the Mother of Harlots spoken of in Revelation and she is STILL drunk on the blood of the saints as well as God's people - Jews.   The church was AND IS the greatest persecutor of Jews in history.   Prior to WWII, persecution of Jews was common throughout Europe.   In the 1930's & 1940's the Germans, mostly Lutherans, Catholics and Baptists, murdered six million Jews simply because they were Jews.   They'd do it again in America if it was allowed and Protestants would lead the parade.

Oh but they are proud of their lies and confusion.  Try to tell them the truth and they will censor you or ostracize you from their company - because they can't handle the truth.  They are a law unto themselves and a righteous nation in their own eyes.   There is no sin among them because they justify all their hate and lies by grace, which they claim is solely their property and inheritance.

You don't have to believe me, either.  Just read their posts and you will see for yourself.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

Honestly--I think you are whacked in the head. I have no idea how you have come to think this way, but it just isn't true.

I have been around believers from all across the spectrum and this country and have never once met a single individual; who meets this portrayal of yours---quite the opposite, in fact.

It matters not one whit that you develop a construct to make your point--if it simply is not true. I pray that folks reading your nonsense, see it for what it is. Hatefulness. The very hatefulness you ascribe unjustly and in error toward others.

Edited September 20, 2019 by Alive
typo

[choir loft]

On 9/18/2019 at 9:02 AM, Alive said:

Why does it have to be one or the other? Why not both? A static number that the Lord anticipates and the Church maturation.

I always thought that the 153 fishes--a very specific number-- referred to the saints being drawn into Christ in the Church age. And that that number of saints would coincide with the other signs of the times and culmination of events prophesied. Our God is a multi-tasker.

I would call attention to His 'breaking down the middle wall of partition' to address that other stuff.

Is there a distinction between Israel and the 'Israel of God'.

Just a cupla thoughts.

The post you responded to was quoting a doctrine called Dispensationalism.   It was invented in the mid-19th century by a fellow named John Nelson Darby who was neither priest nor theologian.  He was a consort of witches, which was also popular at that time.  His ideas were and continue to be quite popular albeit extremely confusing and absolutely not Biblical at all.

There's also a mixture of Calvinism in that post too, which adds to the confused nature of the statements.  If you believe all people are pre-destined to either heaven or hell, then go tell that to a woman who's baby just died.  See how much comfort she gets when you tell her the baby was full of original sin and is going to hell because it isn't a Calvinist.

When you ask if there's a distinction between Israel, the Jewish nation, or the "Israel of God" you are asking about an even older form of heresy called Replacement Theology.   RT has been around as long as the church, which is itself an aberration of faith.  Replacement Theology holds that God hates Jews (a purely Protestant point of view - ask any Nazi) and has consigned them to the back burner of history.  RT suggests that the church has 'replaced' Jews as God's chosen people and that Jews deserve any punishment that comes down the line - including but not limited to A SECOND HOLOCAUST of murder and hate against them.  Protestants almost start salivating when that second holocaust is brought up because its part of their imaginary scenario for the End Times.

You have put a stick into a hive of bees - theologically speaking.  Accept any of the rubbish you've been reading and it will take you years to untangle your world view especially where Jews are concerned.  

If you wish to pursue truth, I suggest you read the Bible and stay away from "Bible studies" or the popular tripe of the day such as Christian humanistic gospel music.  Bear in mind that every fool thinks his imaginary interpretation is the truth.  According to the Bible it's impossible to persuade him otherwise.   Avoid such people if at all possible.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

Edited September 20, 2019 by choir loft

[choir loft]

29 minutes ago, Alive said:

Honestly--I think you are whacked in the head. I have no idea how you have come to think this way, but it just isn't true.

I have been around believers from all across the spectrum and this country and have never once met a single individual; who meets this portrayal of yours---quite the opposite, in fact.

It matters not one whit that you develop a construct to make your point--if it simply is not true. I pray that folks reading your nonsense, see it for what it is. Hatefulness. The very hatefulness you ascribe unjustly and in error toward others.

Every word I wrote is historically correct.   You'd know that if you'd studied anything other than Christian propaganda, buzz words and slogans.

People who hate the truth always accuse one who pursues it of being crazy.    

Believers are mostly nice folks.  

I've been up and down and back and forth across America and can vouch for that fact.  That they are poorly educated in religion and that they are anti-semitic in nature is also fact.  When I went to seminary I learned that everyone there was nice - including a nice bishop who had an affair with the nice wife of a married minister.  After the nice bishop and nice ex-wife ran off together that nice minister got a job as a social worker where he raped and abused nice kids.

Don't talk to me about nice.  Nice doesn't save anybody and it doesn't hold any currency with God either.

Consider that most Christians hate Jew LAW.   My first experience with this was a remark from a "good Christian man" that the Old Testament ought to be ripped out of the Bible and never read again.   This is the sort of nonsense one will typically encounter with any religious discussion among Christians.   Most of them do not know or understand the Old Testament at all.  They know not the LAW and the Prophets and have no idea what Jesus was talking about when He referred to it.

Bear in mind that Jesus was also accused of being crazy.  ... or haven't you read that part?????   I'm in good company, apparently.

Consider also the popularity of current Christian interpretations of the End Times.  Virtually every one of them includes a SECOND HOLOCAUST of murder and hate against Jews - the purpose of which they will gladly tell you is to get Jews to convert and join their church.  The only difference between them and the Nazis is that they are nice when they say it.  The Nazis were more honest about their hatred of Jews.  Protestant Christians mask it in perverted theology.  

Most Christians haven't read the Bible and are totally unaware that EVERY worship service of new Christians was held in a synagogue and that Jesus, who they claim as their leader, also went to synagogue.  If Jesus was here today all the nice Christians would insist that He attend their church rather than follow Him to synagogue - where in fact He would be found.

READ HISTORY - for God's sake don't just sit there and say I'm crazy just because you are ignorant of what has happened in the past.   Most of the time I'm accused of hate and insanity when all I've really done is quote history.  I can give names dates and places, but that won't sell it to those who've persuaded themselves of the lie of Protestant superiority over Jews and Catholics and Muslims and all the rest.   And you say I'm crazy and hateful?

I'd rather be crazy than nice.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

Edited September 20, 2019 by choir loft

[dhchristian]

On 9/20/2019 at 2:30 PM, choir loft said:

The post you responded to was quoting a doctrine called Dispensationalism.   It was invented in the mid-19th century by a fellow named John Nelson Darby who was neither priest nor theologian.  He was a consort of witches, which was also popular at that time.  His ideas were and continue to be quite popular albeit extremely confusing and absolutely not Biblical at all.

There's also a mixture of Calvinism in that post too, which adds to the confused nature of the statements.  If you believe all people are pre-destined to either heaven or hell, then go tell that to a woman who's baby just died.  See how much comfort she gets when you tell her the baby was full of original sin and is going to hell because it isn't a Calvinist.

Dispensation is a word used in scripture, four times it is just a word, nothing more. Darby came well after the Word was translated into English as dispensation, so if he had a time machine then maybe your conspiracy theory has some merit, but he did not. In fact the Word dispensation was used in the very first English translation of scripture done by Wycliffe, which was done in the 1300's. here is the verse and the Word in the Wycliffe translation. ² if nevertheless ye have heard the dispensation of God's grace, that is given to me in you.  (Eph. 3:2, WYC) In fact, Dispensationalism is not a creation of Darby, and goes back to the very early church fathers. For example Irenaeus used Premillennialism in his Against Heresies to confront Gnosticism. Premillennialism is an essential doctrine of Dispensationalism. So that is a blatantly false accusation on your part many of the early church fathers used the term "ages" to describe dispensations, same concept different term.  

Dispensationalism is a theological system of interpretation that sees the scriptures as its central focus. This system of interpretation consists of the following two principles: 1) The scriptures are interpreted in a literal manner, and 2) it makes a distinction between the church and the nation of Israel. Israel is not the church, and the church is not Israel. Dispensationalist generally do not see the church replacing Israel (replacement theology), neither do they see the church as Israel Having to abide by the 613 Laws and ordinances of the Torah. What Christ did on the cross fulfilled the Law and the Torah, and therefore fulfilled the requirements of many of these Laws. For example, we no longer stone people for adultery, and anyone who says we are to abide by the Torah, how come they are not stoning anyone? I Mean, like 50% of marriages end in divorce, right? 

Calvinism is a proponent of replacement theology, in large part, Some are more in the vain of covenant theology, But both replace Israel with the church. Here is a brief distinction made between the three views.Answer: Replacement theology (also known as supersessionism) essentially teaches that the church has replaced Israel in God’s plan. Adherents of replacement theology believe the Jews are no longer God’s chosen people, and God does not have specific future plans for the nation of Israel. Among the different views of the relationship between the church and Israel are the church has replaced Israel (replacement theology), the church is an expansion of Israel (covenant theology), or the church is completely different and distinct from Israel (dispensationalism/premillennialism). 

https://www.gotquestions.org/replacement-theology.html

As You can see dispensationalism is not replacement theology, and never will be. So we have another false accusation, saying I am a Calvinist which I am not. Neither am I a covenant theologist which states the church is an expansion of Israel, Because I am a Premillennialist. I Believe in the future restoration of Israel exactly as outlined by Paul in Romans 11. and Spoken of by Jesus in Acts 1:6-8. In Christ Jesus there is neither Jew nor Greek, we become one In Christ Jesus. 

On 9/20/2019 at 2:30 PM, choir loft said:

When you ask if there's a distinction between Israel, the Jewish nation, or the "Israel of God" you are asking about an even older form of heresy called Replacement Theology.   RT has been around as long as the church, which is itself an aberration of faith.  Replacement Theology holds that God hates Jews (a purely Protestant point of view - ask any Nazi) and has consigned them to the back burner of history.

Dispensationalism teaches that God Loves the Jews, That they are the Apple of His eye, and that they will be restored as a nation first, and then they will receive Jesus as their messiah And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. (Zech. 12:10) We see the Jews as enemies of the Gospel, yet beloved in God's eyes, exactly as Paul wrote: As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. (Romans 11:28) We see their unbelief As Opening the door that we Gentiles might receive mercy and that By their Inclusion in the God's mercy will glorify God In the end times. For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!  (Romans 11:30-32) 

The Restoration of Israel, being the restoration of all things unto Christ in fulness. Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness? (Romans 11:12)

There are a lot of forces and principalities at work on this site and in the World that want to prevent, and think they can prevent this fulness from coming into being. Choir Loft is one of them. As You can see his knowledge of History is Flawed, His accusations come with no basis in fact, as he accuses me of teaching replacement theology, which is obviously not the same as dispensationalism. He calls me a Calvinist, which I am not, He says I want to throw children into hell fire, which not what my views on hell teach, rather that hell is determined by the age of accountability. They are all false accusations, lies, disinformation and misinformation in order to prevent the message of the Fulness of the Gentiles reaching the church, that by our fulness Israel, True Israel, not those who say they are Jews but are not, will be restored in fulness together with us exactly as Romans 11:25 states.

 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. (Romans 11:25) Read this verse, and you will see exactly how the fulness of the gentiles is tied to the restoration of Israel. And then you will fully understand the last verse of the Old Testament prophecy... 

[dhchristian]

On 9/20/2019 at 1:02 PM, Alive said:

Hmmmmm?

I'm not sure the meaning behind the difference you cite between the faithful and the saints.

I do not agree with the RCC's ideas of saints.

The saints of God are the called out ones--believers. Those that are 'In Christ' by the Father. Some are more faithful to what God reveals to an individual--than others. Such is always the case. Variability is inevitable.

I agree wholeheartedly and by experience in the 'pulpit' thing. This is something the Lord showed back when I was at Bible School 40 years back after I had left off being a pastor and leaving the organized church.

Please understand--I don't criticize those brethren in organized churches. I took the course I was convinced the Lord set for myself.

I mourn at 'division' and the strength of that sense grew over the years and culminated in a dream the Lord sent.

I saw a field and in that field there were lots of dead bodies that were in pieces laying all over the field. In the dream while looking at this a word came into my mind. I didn't know the word and haven't since, but the sense of the word was things like atrocity, abomination, horror, disgust. A word that meant these things and more. It was very powerful. I woke up like a shot and said, "Lord, what the heck was that". He said. "that is how I feel when I see my Body divided".

This left a wound of sorts and the result can be imagined.

I Do not agree with the RCC's ideas of saints Either. The Saints are chosen of God By Lot (2 peter 1;1) and are distinct from the faithful in Christ Jesus (Eph. 1:1). They are not chosen by merit, but by divine Lot from all walks of life, rightly distinguished, this eliminates the whole Calvinism Arminian debate on Election, for all are called to be Christians and receive the Gospel by their free will, But only those few are chosen by God to be saints By His sovereign will. Not that I have managed to quell this debate with what I have said, But if one approaches scripture this way you will see it nullifies the cons on both opinions. 

Protestantism as a reaction to the RCC's heretical veneration of the saints, went to the extreme and eliminated the distinction thereby leading to the eventual Arminian/ Calvinism errors. Fundamentalism with all its great doctrinal qualities also never corrected this and continued to call all believers  saints. If You will, do your own study on saints, I am not going to try to persuade you on this. If you truly "mourn at division" as I do, then you will see the unifying this doctrine alone can bring to one of the biggest divides in the church.

Division is there because of the pride of Man, God designed the church that way, that we may come together in fulness in the Unity of the Spirit which is what this post is pointing to. Please take the time to read the OP here as I would like your Input. The field you saw is the field harvested, the tares are planted alongside the wheat are the Apostates in the churches, planted not by God, but By the adversary. Very soon his Angels will come and harvest them as judgment begins at the house of God. (1 Peter 4;17)

 

  

[Alive]

13 hours ago, dhchristian said:

The field you saw is the field harvested, the tares are planted alongside the wheat are the Apostates in the churches, planted not by God, but By the adversary.

  

What field are you referring to, dh?

[dhchristian]

Just now, Alive said:

What field are you referring to, dh?

Your "field of dreams". the one with bodies all over it in your comment. 

[Alive]

1 hour ago, dhchristian said:

Your "field of dreams". the one with bodies all over it in your comment. 

The Lord was very clear about what the field was.

[Alive]

Oh well--I just typed a long response and somehow lost it.

:-)

[Alive]

2 minutes ago, maryjayne said:

I hope you will remember enough of it to re-type it.

Maybe--my head hurts.

LOL