The fulness of the Gentiles

[dhchristian]

Since the Question of dispensationalism arose here, I want to point you all to this well written article form GotQuestions. The third paragraph in particular explains why so many oppose dispensationalism in this day and age...

Question: "What is dispensationalism and is it biblical?"

Answer: A dispensation is a way of ordering things—an administration, a system, or a management. In theology, a dispensation is the divine administration of a period of time; each dispensation is a divinely appointed age. Dispensationalism is a theological system that recognizes these ages ordained by God to order the affairs of the world. Dispensationalism has two primary distinctives: 1) a consistently literal interpretation of Scripture, especially Bible prophecy, and 2) a view of the uniqueness of Israel as separate from the Church in God’s program. Classical dispensationalism identifies seven dispensations in God’s plan for humanity.

Dispensationalists hold to a literal interpretation of the Bible as the best hermeneutic. The literal interpretation gives each word the meaning it would commonly have in everyday usage. Allowances are made for symbols, figures of speech, and types, of course. It is understood that even symbols and figurative sayings have literal meanings behind them. So, for example, when the Bible speaks of “a thousand years” in Revelation 20, dispensationalists interpret it as a literal period of 1,000 years (the dispensation of the Kingdom), since there is no compelling reason to interpret it otherwise.

There are at least two reasons why literalism is the best way to view Scripture. First, philosophically, the purpose of language itself requires that we interpret words literally. Language was given by God for the purpose of being able to communicate. Words are vessels of meaning. The second reason is biblical. Every prophecy about Jesus Christ in the Old Testament was fulfilled literally. Jesus’ birth, ministry, death, and resurrection all occurred exactly as the Old Testament predicted. The prophecies were literal. There is no non-literal fulfillment of messianic prophecies in the New Testament. This argues strongly for the literal method. If a literal interpretation is not used in studying the Scriptures, there is no objective standard by which to understand the Bible. Each person would be able to interpret the Bible as he saw fit. Biblical interpretation would devolve into “what this passage says to me” instead of “the Bible says.” Sadly, this is already the case in much of what is called Bible study today.

Dispensational theology teaches that there are two distinct peoples of God: Israel and the Church. Dispensationalists believe that salvation has always been by grace through faith alone—in God in the Old Testament and specifically in God the Son in the New Testament. Dispensationalists hold that the Church has not replaced Israel in God’s program and that the Old Testament promises to Israel have not been transferred to the Church. Dispensationalism teaches that the promises God made to Israel in the Old Testament (for land, many descendants, and blessings) will be ultimately fulfilled in the 1000-year period spoken of in Revelation 20. Dispensationalists believe that, just as God is in this age focusing His attention on the Church, He will again in the future focus His attention on Israel (see Romans 9–11 and Daniel 9:24).

Dispensationalists understand the Bible to be organized into seven dispensations: Innocence (Genesis 1:1—3:7), Conscience (Genesis 3:8—8:22), Human Government (Genesis 9:1—11:32), Promise (Genesis 12:1—Exodus 19:25), Law (Exodus 20:1—Acts 2:4), Grace (Acts 2:4—Revelation 20:3), and the Millennial Kingdom (Revelation 20:4–6). Again, these dispensations are not paths to salvation, but manners in which God relates to man. Each dispensation includes a recognizable pattern of how God worked with people living in the dispensation. That pattern is 1) a responsibility, 2) a failure, 3) a judgment, and 4) grace to move on.

Dispensationalism, as a system, results in a premillennial interpretation of Christ’s second coming and usually a pretribulational interpretation of the rapture. To summarize, dispensationalism is a theological system that emphasizes the literal interpretation of Bible prophecy, recognizes a distinction between Israel and the Church, and organizes the Bible into different dispensations or administrations.

https://www.gotquestions.org/dispensationalism.html

 

[Gentle-Warrior]

1 hour ago, dhchristian said:

Perhaps, those "modern scholarly translations" should not have based their translations off of heretical Alexandrian texts in the first place. For 300 Years the English Language had the KJV and the church did just fine, Since 1904 the modern translations have been using the corruptions of Hort and Wescott, and the results show in the churches of today. Just Sayin'. 

 

Just going by what Jesus said here, His words are not open to interpretation and my view is strictly literal. Here I will requote it for you just so that it will sink in. The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it. Luke 16:16

Matthew 11:13 confirms this, and adds even more to this... 13For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. 14 And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come.

That is mighty Arrogant of a thing to say... Even the Jehovah's witnesses that come to my door, (And usually never return) allow me to use my KJV, and you exclude me from Using it? I wonder why? Are You scared of the Holy Bible? 

No, Sorry your appeal to intellectual superiority will not work with me, as I am not taught in some seminary (Or cemetary as some have called it), But I have been taught by the Holy Ghost without the teachings and interpretation of men, scholarly or otherwise. Jesus Taught about dispensations, as did Paul the Apostle, and that makes me inclined to say they were right.

God Bless. 

You have misunderstood me. The kjv cannot be used to dictate doctrine. It is rather arrogant from your part to assume that one translation in English can dictate what the Bible teaches. May I remind you that the original language of the NT is Koine Greek, not old English?   

However, I apologize if I get confused when I'm forced to read an archaic translation that is 412 years old. We don't live in the Middle Ages, nor do I want to use a dictionary to understand my English Bible. This is why it is important that you consider that not everyone reads the kjv. 

As for Lk 16:16, I really don't understand what point you are trying to make. The original discussion was about whether dispensationalism is taught in the Bible or not. Besides that, you have failed considering that this teaching is only 200 year old, NOT 2,000 years old.

So, since dispensationalism is not really biblical, everything else that this doctrine teaches fall apart at the seams. 

Take care, 

Edited September 2, 2019 by Gentle-Warrior

[Gentle-Warrior]

2 hours ago, dhchristian said:

Perhaps, those "modern scholarly translations" should not have based their translations off of heretical Alexandrian texts in the first place. For 300 Years the English Language had the KJV and the church did just fine, Since 1904 the modern translations have been using the corruptions of Hort and Wescott, and the results show in the churches of today. Just Sayin'. 

 

Just going by what Jesus said here, His words are not open to interpretation and my view is strictly literal. Here I will requote it for you just so that it will sink in. The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it. Luke 16:16

Matthew 11:13 confirms this, and adds even more to this... 13For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. 14 And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come.

That is mighty Arrogant of a thing to say... Even the Jehovah's witnesses that come to my door, (And usually never return) allow me to use my KJV, and you exclude me from Using it? I wonder why? Are You scared of the Holy Bible? 

No, Sorry your appeal to intellectual superiority will not work with me, as I am not taught in some seminary (Or cemetary as some have called it), But I have been taught by the Holy Ghost without the teachings and interpretation of men, scholarly or otherwise. Jesus Taught about dispensations, as did Paul the Apostle, and that makes me inclined to say they were right.

God Bless. 

Oh no a KJO cult follower. 

Edited September 2, 2019 by Gentle-Warrior

[dhchristian]

Just now, Gentle-Warrior said:

As for Lk 16:16, I really don't understand what point you are trying to make. The original discussion was about whether dispensationalism which is not taught in the Bible, and you have no considered that this teaching is only 200 years old. 

So, if dispensationalism is not biblical, everything else that this doctrine teaches fall apart at the seams. 

Take care,

Dispensationalism is rightly dividing the Word of God, and is As Old as the Bible. 

Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.  (2 Timothy 2:15)

If you cannot grasp a simple verse like Luke 16:16, It shows why you are averse to the Authoritative King James Version of the Bible. For the record I Do you use the Greek to add insight and definition to the plain Language of the Word of God, as Used in the Textus Receptus.

Luke 16:16 is the KEY verse of the dispensationalist Hermeneutic of studying the Word of God. If you are going to take a stand against dispensationalism, You had better be able to explain that verse.... Remember, these are Jesus Own Words. and it doesnot matter which version you use they all say the same thing. 

“The Law and the Prophets were proclaimed until John; since that time the gospel of the kingdom of God [fn]has been preached, and everyone is forcing his way into it. (NASB)

“The Law and the Prophets were proclaimed until John. Since that time, the good news of the kingdom of God is being preached, and everyone is forcing their way into it. (NIV)

“The Law and the Prophets were until John; since then the good news of the kingdom of God is preached, and everyone forces his way into it. (ESV)

“The law and the prophets were until John. Since that time the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is pressing into it. (NKJV)

The Law and the prophets (Dispensation A) were until John (The beginning of dispensation B) Since then The Gospel of the Kingdom is preached (Dispensation B)….

Now, this is a transition time between the OLD and The NEW Covenant, The New covenant cannot take full effect until the Death of the testator.

For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth. (Hebrews 9:16-17)

That is the New covenant, which no longer preaches the baptism of John (The Gospel of the Kingdom), but the Gospel of Grace unto salvation by the Blood Of Jesus. This then Is dispensation C.  

The Proof for this is found in acts 19, when those who had received the Baptism of John received the Baptism of the Holy Ghost.

He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. (Acts 19:2-6)

Matthew 24:14 prophesies that the Gospel of the kingdom will be preached again, shortly before the final week for Israel begins...

And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. (Matthew 24:14)

Now we are in the transition from the church Age, to the Millennial Kingdom of God, Which could have occurred during the first advent, and John the Baptist could have been "Elijah" if they had received him as such, But instead he was Killed By Herod. And Christ was crucified, But all of this was known ahead of time by an all Knowing God who took this into account to extend grace unto the gentiles via the mystery of the church age, which we are living in now. This dispensation will come to an end, and the millennial dispensation will begin, and the time of transition is the final week for Israel.  

I am not preaching Hyper dispensationalism here, But plain old dispensationalism. If You cannot understand and explain a simple verse like Luke 16:16, You are obviously incapable of the most basic of common sense discussions on these things, or worse, You have an agenda That your pushing. You are a Newbie here, so I will extend the benefit of the doubt to you, But if you want to debate this, you need to explain Luke 16:16 and how I am interpreting it wrong, instead of just coming on here and calling me names, and Mocking me with your "superior Hermeneutic". 

45 minutes ago, Gentle-Warrior said:

The kjv cannot be used to dictate doctrine.

IAmnot using the KJV to dictate doctrine, I am using the Word of God, The Words of Jesus Himself. It does not matter whether you translate the word dispensation as stewardship or Authority in the verses I pointed to they mean the same thing. 

[dhchristian]

Just now, Gentle-Warrior said:

Oh no a KJO cult follower.

I am not KJV Only, Although I feel it is the best translation in the English out there. Once again, a mocking comment with no substance.

[dhchristian]

50 minutes ago, Gentle-Warrior said:

So, if dispensationalism is not biblical, everything else that this doctrine teaches fall apart at the seams.

Not at all, You have still failed to explain Luke 16:16 from a non dispensationalist perspective logically, You have only said you do not understand.

[Gentle-Warrior]

25 minutes ago, dhchristian said:

I am not KJV Only, Although I feel it is the best translation in the English out there. Once again, a mocking comment with no substance.

I feel that the best translation there is the NASB. So, you read your translation and I read mine. 

 

23 minutes ago, dhchristian said:

Not at all, You have still failed to explain Luke 16:16 from a non dispensationalist perspective logically, You have only said you do not understand.

I already told you that dispensationalism is not biblical. Why should I try to prove a false teaching when it is false from the get go? Dispensationalism was invented about 400 years ago by the Plymouth Brethren but popularized by apostates like Darby and Scofield. It is not biblical! 

The Bible, on the other hand, is about covenants which means we are now living under the everlasting covenant that Jesus inaugurated by the shedding of His blood (Mat.26:26-28).

As for Lk 16:16 (Bible chapter and verse) cannot be explained outside of it intended context. God never meant for us to look at isolated verses as if these would give us a clear understanding to the Scriptures. 

Our modern chapter divisions of the Bible were created by Stephen Langton and were completed around AD 1227. Wycliffe's Bible (completed in 1382 before the printing press) was the first Bible to use Langton's chapter divisions. Since this time, English Bible translations have followed the pattern, with other languages adopting the same division system.
Bible verses were created much later. The verses of the Old Testament were developed by a Jewish rabbi named Nathan in 1448. The New Testament's verses were developed in 1551 by Robert Estienne (also known by the name Stephanus). His divisions were first used in the Greek New Testament published in 1551 and were used again in a French Bible in 1553. 

Having said that, just let me say the Law and the Prophets is the old covenant age, now superseded by the kingdom of God. John the Baptist was still part of the old covenant age, so that his ministry served as the culmination of a long history of OT prophecy that looked forward to the coming of the messianic kingdom. 

Take care, 

 

 

Edited September 2, 2019 by Gentle-Warrior

[Gentle-Warrior]

28 minutes ago, dhchristian said:

I am not using the KJV to dictate doctrine, I am using the Word of God, The Words of Jesus Himself. It does not matter whether you translate the word dispensation as stewardship or Authority in the verses I pointed to they mean the same thing. 

The NASB, the ESV, the LEB, etc., are ENGLISH translations of the original languages. No translation is perfect. All of them contain minor errors because fallen men translated the word of God into our language. But you also must remember that the original word of God has also been translated into many, many different languages where the kjv has no part to play. 

Besides that, I wished I could convey to you that nouns like dispensations, stewardship, administrations, etc., are simply words that the apostle Paul used to convey a greater truth. It has nothing to do with the teachings of "dispensations." Biblical doctrines are far more complex than simply believing modern theologians who have abandoned the teachings of the bible for something that man invented much, much later.

Bless you brother,  

[dhchristian]

Just now, Gentle-Warrior said:

Having said that, just let me say the Law and the Prophets is the old covenant age, now superseded by the kingdom of God. John. John the Baptist was still part of the old covenant age, so that his ministry served as the culmination of a long history of OT prophecy that looked forward to the coming of the messianic kingdom. 

Your explanation sounds like dispensationalism to me. Instead of the word dispensation, you use covenant. Are you a replacement theologist as well? Or does Israel have its own set of prophecies to fulfill?

 

Just now, Gentle-Warrior said:

Dispensationalism was invented about 400 years ago by the Plymouth Brethren but popularized by apostates like Darby and Scofield. It is not biblical! 

Dispensationalism is rightly dividing the Word of Truth. If You do not divide it at all, you would still be stoning people for committing adultery, If you divide it to Much (Hyper dispensationalism) you make the Words of Jesus of No effect in this dispensation.

 

Just now, Gentle-Warrior said:

As for Lk 16:16 (Bible chapter and verse) cannot be explained outside of it intended context. God never meant for us to look at isolated verses as if these would give us a clear understanding to the Scriptures. 

This is known as avoiding a question, because one does not have an answer. Good exegesis is to study the full context of the Word of God,     

[dhchristian]

Just now, Gentle-Warrior said:

The NASB, the ESV, the LEB, etc., are ENGLISH translations of the original languages. No translation is perfect. All of them contain minor errors because fallen men translated the word of God into our language. But you also must remember that the original word of God has also been translated into many, many different languages where the kjv has no part to play. 

Besides that, I wished I could convey to you that nouns like dispensations, stewardship, administrations, etc., are simply words that the apostle Paul used to convey a greater truth. It has nothing to do with the teachings of "dispensations." Biblical doctrines are far more complex than simply believing modern theologians who have abandoned the teachings of the bible for something that man invented much, much later.

I am convinced You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. You have yet to reply to a simple question Re: Luke 16:16.