Great Religious Leaders

[ReneeIW]

12 minutes ago, Willa said:

1Ti 5:17  Let the elders who rule well be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in preaching and teaching.

1Ti 5:18  For the Scripture says, "You shall not muzzle an ox when it treads out the grain," and, "The laborer deserves his wages."

This is referring to the pastor who tirelessly preaches and teaches the Scriptures should receive twice the pay of the rest of the church employees.  

That makes perfect sense! Thank you. Someone else way saying that double honor meant to  double the honor you are commanded to give your mother and father, and I didn’t understand that.

It reminds me of the Pharisees who told the Jews they didn’t have to take care of their parents if they were giving the money to them for God’s work. I know what was said here is slightly different,  but still, it seemed like we were going in a direction that allows church leaders to take advantage of others. Especially when you see the word “dangerous” used as in its “dangerous” not to understand this verse and do what it says. 

[Neighbor]

1 hour ago, BeauJangles said:

You don't really expect me to answer this do you? Here you are then. 

 

YesI had hope that you would be able to do just that, and not just link me to the commentary of some other person. For you are the one that has written he cannot ever become a great  religious leader. I am interested in you, and what your reasons  for your statement might be, not someone else's commentary. I just thought with that declaration you would be able and willing to flesh  out your conclusion.

Thanks anyway. 

ps- that link evidently is not valid. when I saw that it was from the Huffpost I immediately wondered what the agenda of the author might be. So I am more interested  and will value more highly the basis of your personally researched and thought out conclusion than anything  in Huffpost

[Neighbor]

35 minutes ago, DustyRoad said:

Interesting how you would turn something away without considering it --- it's beneath you, Neighbor? Granted, that was an invalid link our brother shared but Joel Osteen's association with the prosperity gospel is well-known. Even I'm aware of it. Here's an overarching article from a source that isn't HuffPost which mentions Osteen along with others like him.

https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/what-you-should-know-about-the-prosperity-gospel/ 

I  am interested in Beaus reasoning and opinion! I have listened to Joel. I have looked at his church,   have already read  about him and read him. My own church elders wrote him to ask and to challenge some things about his presentations. 

Pesonally I find it to be Christian -lite.  But if God uses Christian lite to share  of my Lord I am good with it. I trust that my Lord will move his own onward even as He did this  former atheist using  the puffy haired ones on tv aplenty as a start.

[Neighbor]

47 minutes ago, Isaiah53NIV said:

Here is an article on the Got Questions website about Joel Osteen and his teachings:

https://www.gotquestions.org/Joel-Osteen.html

 

Well, never mind.  Based on the above post, it seems you already know about him then.

Hi, I do know of many opinions about him. As a side note it is kinda funny to me funny that anyone chooses to use Got Questions though, as their own  works are unsigned. I really much more appreciate the opinions of individuals that use their own reasoned out thoughts and put their own identity  with it and not just go clicking on what I call Bible cliffnotes.

I credit Beaujangles as having a good mind and of being quite capable of expressing his own  ideas on things. it is his opinion and reasoning that I will value ay above Cliffnotes or Huffpost.

 I had what I consider to be a good cyber saint in Christ  that died hanging on to the prosperity and healing of yet another preacher of give to get.  Seeme dthey hung on but were rather embittered as they did so  at th enear end of it. Kind of saddens me to this day.

 I have encountered the things will be all better scenarios over all of my lifetime ,first from a sincere man  a Latter Day Saint whose needs were me though he never had the money to meet them. I have read Norman Vincent Peale, I have met, attended, researched and rejected Bob Schuler's possibility thinkers ( still have"his" Bible). he offered me the opportunity to buy one or both of the last two available crystral cathedal windows in my name. Wow eh?  I think they were $100,000 each, no discount for buying two.

Some like K. Copeland teach an obviously different gospel, not that of our Lord andsavior at all. Some teach of other gods and make idols of real estate ventures and even green prayer hankies. I have not so far found Joel Osteen to be much like that, just kinda more a positive guy with a good heart attitude toward Jesus, yet very soft on useful doctrine. I think he knows it, but has decided it is not his calling to press it,  and instead just introduce Jesus  to many. And that he does. perhaps the Holy spirit uses him i do not know. But, I have always had an alert go up  as he talks.

I'd like to hear from Beaujangles of his reasoning for his conclusion. I figure he has one.

[Neighbor]

1 hour ago, Isaiah53NIV said:

You know what brother, how about you stop tearing down your brothers and sisters in Christ on this board. I have seen you be snarky with others numerous times, and it's just not appreciated. I have kept quiet, but now that you targeted me, I am saying something about it. If you look at my post, I was in no way rude to you. Next time you are thinking of something that might come off as rude, please keep it in your head or just ignore the person. Never too late to start practicing loving your neighbor, even if it's just someone on the other side of a computer screen.

 

I was trying to have a conversation with someone else. I respect Beau and think I might learn something from him.

BTW- Personal attacks are not a good testimony. 

[BeauJangles]

3 hours ago, Neighbor said:

I just thought with that declaration you would be able and willing to flesh  out your conclusion.

Oh, I see. You want a personal opinion? Mine may not be so kind as the numerous other links who were also of the same understanding about Joel Osteen. He's a charlatan, a phony and not formally trained to teach or preach theology for that matter. Feel free to tune in for a half hour of his program to satiate your own curiosity, and then research him on your own. Everyone seems aware of his prosperity teaching. Or continue thinking what a great religious leader his is. Perhaps if he became ordained I might be more impressed. Sorry, no-go on Joel.  

[Blood Bought 1953]

5 hours ago, Willa said:

repentance means turning from sin

conversion is turning to God.

Jesus preached repentance.

turning to Christ as Lord over their lives brings salvation and being born again.

I think some things we need to remember are that Judas “ repented” and we know where he is today .Also, the Book of John is the place almost everyone at Worthy sends Newbies to the Faith- yet the word “ repent” is NEVER mentioned.Not one time.The Word “ belief” or “Faith” is mentioned over 100 times...Things just don’t add up....

Jesus preached repentance, but NOT for Salvation.For Salvation preached HIMSELF !   “I” am the WAY... “I” am the TRUTH .... “ I” am the Light—- When Jesus preaches Repentance , He Is preaching “ Turn to God, with Faith in ME”.

Being “sorry for sins” ( think Judas) is good.... “Turning over a new leaf”is also good .They do not save.So why would Jesus waste His time preaching a type of repentance that does not save anybody, despite good intentions .He didn’t . If the Bible says anywhere “ repent of sins” it means “ repent of sins”. Unfortunately for those that have been taught improperly all there lives, “ Repent of sins to be SAVED” is NOWHERE to be found in the KJV.  I realize that Truth shocks many Believers.It certainly shocked me.

To see that you are a sinner and to be sorrowful about it.... To see that you need to “ get your act  together”..... to try to be a better person....to “ turn over a new leaf”—- only a fool would deny that these are positive things. Jesus nor Paul never preached any form of Salvation that would give Glory to Man , no matter how much he was able to “ clean himself up”.All we can do is “Turn to God” ( the type of repentance that Jesus knew was the only type of turning that would get the ball rolling for Salvation) and with that Turning to God for help,that only He can provide, He grant us the  TRUE ELIXER FOR SIN— The HOLY SPIRIT ! Without that SPIRIT, we are “ none of His”. The traditional view of repentance with all of its guilt, sorrow, promises to do better , being good from now on, etc. will help your personal morality.Unfortunately, God is not looking for moral people .God is looking for those with CONTRITE HEARTS.Those  are sinners who KNOW they are sinners and who know they are helpless and hopeless without a Savior.

Did the Publican , who we KNOW was saved, make any promises to God to repent- clean himself up in order to show he was  “ good enough” ?  All he did was “ turn to God” to be saved.THAT is True Repentance .The Word “ Repentance” could mean 50 different thing— Jesus preached the Repentance That meant “ Turn to God” as the story of the Publican shows.It is the only Repentance that will get God’s Holy Spirit in you that will  save you. Any other type of repentance, comparatively speaking, is a waste of time.Jesus does  not want us to clean ourselves up and then invite Him in — We invite Him in and HE does the cleaning— that “ inside of the cup” thing that only the indwelling Holy Spirit can do.Its all about the New Heart....Given to those that turn to God , Trusting Him ALONE.....NOT to those trying to do it themselves , trusting in themselves and their ability to feel sorrow and a dedication to “ be good from now on”.Those who believe that is what Jesus meant when He preached “ repentance” need to “ change their mind “about that false thinking. They need to repent.... “ Turn to God, with Faith in Jesus Christ”....God bless..

 

[saved34]

1 hour ago, BeauJangles said:

Oh, I see. You want a personal opinion? Mine may not be so kind as the numerous other links who were also of the same understanding about Joel Osteen. He's a charlatan, a phony and not formally trained to teach or preach theology for that matter. Feel free to tune in for a half hour of his program to satiate your own curiosity, and then research him on your own. Everyone seems aware of his prosperity teaching. Or continue thinking what a great religious leader his is. Perhaps if he became ordained I might be more impressed. Sorry, no-go on Joel.  

Sorry to say,I personally heard him say Jesus might not be the only way. He said other religions have some good men who will be with us in heaven apart from Christ.

[Blood Bought 1953]

22 minutes ago, saved34 said:

Sorry to say,I personally heard him say Jesus might not be the only way. He said other religions have some good men who will be with us in heaven apart from Christ.

 

Does that guy even OWN a Bible?

 “There are NONE that are good- no, not one”

 “  No one comes to the Father,except through me”

[Willa]

3 hours ago, Blood Bought 1953 said:

Being “sorry for sins” ( think Judas) is good.... “Turning over a new leaf”is also good .They do not save.So why would Jesus waste His time preaching a type of repentance that does not save anybody, despite good intentions .He didn’t . If the Bible says anywhere “ repent of sins” it means “ repent of sins”. Unfortunately for those that have been taught improperly all there lives, “ Repent of sins to be SAVED” is NOWHERE to be found in the KJV.  I realize that Truth shocks many Believers.It certainly shocked me.

 2Co 7:10  For godly grief produces a repentance that leads to salvation without regret, whereas worldly grief produces death.