Enoch

[Jayne]

I was asked in another thread that was hijacked [partially by me, I apologize] to outline flaws I see in the book of Enoch.  First, this book was not written by the Enoch of the Bible.  So lying about it's authorship makes the whole book invalid to me. The second is that this book is a book of angels both fallen and on God's side.  These angels are given too much credit for the fall of man and for the repentance of man and the cleansing of the earth.

Here is it.  There are five sections to Enoch 1.  I will do each in a single post because otherwise the posts will be too long.

BOOK OF ENOCH

SECTION 1 - INTRODUCTION

Chapter 6 - This sections says that angels and human women bred and had children - giants.  I have no problem with this as there are two ways to interpret Genesis 6 and when I teach Genesis 6 to classes, I tell them the proofs and problems with both interpretations and tell them to make their own choice. But the problem is that Enoch says the angels convened and held a summit on Mount Hermon and named the mountain Mount Hermon after swearing to each other to commit this sin knowing it was sin and knowing they would be punished.  This was pre-Flood.  The Flood destroyed the earth and moved the tectonic plates to form continents and the Bible says the waters went over the mountains.  Surely that mountain pre-Flood was not there post-Flood.  The topography changed radically.  Besides Mount Hermon in the Bible post-Flood was considered significant in the psalms and the New Testament.  Why would a summit of demons be a sacred place post-Flood?

Chapter 7 - The children of these women and fallen angels were 3000 ells tall.  An ell is a Germanic word in origin taken from Latin.  It is about the same as a cubit - 18 inches.  That would mean the children of these unions would have been about 4500 feet tall.  People who support the book of Enoch say 3000 is a textual error and it should say 300.  That would still mean the children were 450 feet tall.  Impossible.

 

Chapter 8 - The author ays these fallen angels and/or else their children devoured mankind, abused all sorts of animals, and devoured each other.  The Bible says that they were heroes and men of renown. 

 

Chapter 8 - The author says that a fallen angel [who is responsible for of mankind's sin] taught mankind how to use metals and the "art" of metal works.  Genesis 4:22 gives the name of the human man who was given metalwork knowledge but it is not from a fallen angel.

 

Chapter 9 - The author gives Azazel credit for ALL the unrighteousness on earth.  The Bible says the credit there belongs to the devil and to Adam and Eve.

 

Chapter 10 - The author says that God told LAMECH about the coming Flood and told Lamech to tell his son Noah about it and to tell Noah to HIDE [and in another chapter, the author is Enoch says that God said angels built the ark].  The Bible says that God told Noah directly and told him to openly build an ark and what it was for and gave him all the specifications

The author claims that God said to ascribe ALL SIN to Azazel, a fallen angel.  The Bible says that by Adam sin was brought into the world.

Here's where it gets messy.  Noah is told about the Flood.  The Bible says about 100 years passed after Noah was told and then the Flood came.  Noah was about 500 when he learned about it and 600 when it came.  The author of Enoch says right after Noah was told about the Flood, that God told the angels to start destroying all the wicked of  humanity and that the righteous would escape and bear thousands of children.  It goes on to say that these angels would cleanse the earth of defilement.

If that's the case and Michael and his band cleansed the earth of sin and defilement - what's the need of a Flood?  Also, if angels can "cleanse" the world of sin and wickedness and defilement - what's the need of a Messiah?

 

Chapter 11 - The author says that God, at that time, opened up the chambers of blessings for all the children of men and peace and truth would reign throughout all the days of the world.  That isn't what happened.  God sent a Flood and destroyed the world.

 

Chapters 12-15 - The author says that, after Enoch was taken by God and could not be found, Enoch stayed some with the fallen angels and some with the heavenly angel.  It says he was sent to the fallen angels who married women with a message from the heavenly angels.  The message was that there would be no peace for them nor forgiveness for them for there evil acts with human women.  It says that the fallen angels trembled before Enoch. They begged him to write a petition to God asking for them to be forgiven and to be at peace.  Enoch complied and wrote out the petition.  He goes to Dan below Mount Hermon and reads it and falls asleep and has vision of God saying no.  Why would Enoch, whom the Bible says was a very righteous man be an intercessor for demons???  

The author says that God goes on to tell that the disembodied spirits of the giants will be called "evil spirits".  The Bible does not give the origin of evil spirits, but coupled with all this mess in chapters 12-15, I cannot believe this explanation of the origin of them.  Besides, and again - the Bible says that they were heroes of great renown.

 

Chapter 16 - Finally, God says that these fallen angels did not know all of the mysteries of heaven when they were in heaven - that they only knew the worthless ones and those are what they taught to mankind with men and women sinning much because of what these fallen angels taught them and therefore they will have no peace.

What are the worthless mysteries of heaven?  Is anything in heaven worthless?  Why are angels getting the credit for bringing sin to the world and teaching men and women all the bad things?  Mankind figured that out on his own.  The Bible says that God flooded the earth because the inclination of the THOUGHTS and the HEART of mankind was on evil continually.

 

Chapter 20 - The women who bore children for the fallen angels would be turned into sirens. [Half-bird and half-woman by Greek definition]

 

Chapters 21-35 - Enoch is taken everywhere - the center of the earth, the earth, the heavens, places he doesn't understand - and shown all kinds of smells, places of torment, places of keeping and etc...…  It's just too much for me to cover here.

 

[Alive]

For myself---there is plenty to keep me occupied in my Bible.

As well as the writings of brethren about the same.

[missmuffet]

We should treat the Book of Enoch (and the other books like it) in the same manner we do the other Apocryphal writings. Some of what the Apocrypha says is true and correct, but at the same time, much of it is false and historically inaccurate. If you read these books, you have to treat them as interesting but fallible historical documents, not as the inspired, authoritative Word of God.

[Justin Adams]

28 minutes ago, Tampered With said:

I have copies of the Book of Enoch, the Book of Jasher and Judgement Of The Nephilim. They all should be checked against the many translations of the Bible, Hebrew and Greek to verify their accuracy and veracity and then judge for yourself. One should go in with an open mind and not with a presupposed position only looking for evidence to support your already made up mind. Searching for Truth not to support your doctrine.

Many seem more intent on disagreeing with the Divine Council, God's Cosmic Geography, Nephilim, Annakin, Gibborim, holy ones that fell and corrupted humanity, and the real reason for the flood. So the Joshua wars were just blood letting and had no meaningful directives from God.

They seem to want to blame Adam for all the terrible things and the depravity that is upon the earth. Some even deny evil spirits and elevate haSatan (which means deceiver) from the Nachash (scripture) to a super-hero. It is sad that the ancient Mesopotamian inhabitants, and the ancient near-east had more understanding than we do today. Sure they wove their own mythology around it all, but it is evident to the scholar that something was definitely going on and why the ancient Hebrew prophets even quoted them and replaced their particular Deity with Yahweh (haShem). Note that David re-purposes the Baal Cycle in some of his Psalms.

So much is missed.

[Jayne]

BOOK OF ENOCH

SECTION 2 - THE PARABLES

Chapter 37 - It specifically names the Enoch of the Bible, Noah's great-grandfather, as the author of this book.  That's impossible.  Too many unbiased scholars have put it between 300 BC and 100 AD and written by more than one author.  And if the Bible is true and God took Enoch at the age of 365 BEFORE Noah was even born, then it is impossible for the Enoch of the Bible to have been translated - seen the fallen angels, heavenly angels, God himself, - and them come back to live and be with his family as it describes much later and to have given Noah all his writings in person and to have given Noah writings by angels - as described later.

The Bible say Enoch was taken and was NOT found.  I'm going to go with that.

 

Chapter 39 - What does this mean? "[And it shall come to pass in those days that elect and holy children will descend from the high heaven, and their seed will become one with the children of men. And in those days Enoch received books of zeal and wrath, and books of disquiet and expulsion.]  

This chapter also says that angels are the intercessors for mankind.  "And they ["God's righteous angels] petitioned and interceded and prayed for the children of men, And righteousness flowed before them as water,"  This is the second time angels are called intercessors between man God.  Back in chapter 14 or 15, God told the fallen angels that they should be making intercession for people.

The Bible says that Christ is the intercessor for mankind - not angels - fallen or otherwise.  Do you see how this book gives angels too much authority and credit?

 

Chapter 40 - The angel Phanuel is set over the repentance unto hope of those who inherit eternal life.  The Bible says the Holy Spirit of God draw us to repentance!!!!

Also, it says that this angel Phanuel fends of the Satans [plural] and forbids them [plural] to come to God and accuse mankind and that Gabriel makes intercession for us and to supplicate in the name of the "Lord of Spirits".  This name, Lord of Spirits, is used countless times ad nauseum.

The Bible says that one Satan [singular] DOES accuse the brethren DAY and NIGHT before God.  Apparently he is NOT being fended off by an angel named Phanuel.

 

 

Chapter 44 - "Enoch" says that he saw a phenomenon of some stars rising up and becoming lightning instead and once their form was changed, it could not change back.

 

 

Chapter 60 - This says "Enoch" receive a parable when he was 500 years old.  The Bible says Enoch was taken at age 365.

This chapter also speaks of after God's judgement comes and there will be two "monsters"  who are pulled apart - one being a Leviathan that goes to the water and one being a Behemoth that stays on land and speaks of them "feeding" and conforming to the greatness of God.    Can you not see how this is copied from the book of Job?

 

 

Chapter 64 - Apparently an angel announce that fallen angels descended down from heaven, explained mysteries to mankind that they should not know, and seduced mankind into sinning.  The Bible says the devil deceived Eve, Adam defiantly disobeyed, and from their mankind sins when "but each person is tempted when they are dragged away by their own evil desire and enticed. Then after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.…"  No fallen angels involved "teaching" mankind to sin.

 

 

Chapter 65 - In this book, Noah goes to visit Enoch and to ask him about the coming destruction.  The Bible says that Enoch died long before Noah was born and that God explained it all to Noah - including the and floodwaters

This chapter also says that this is the cause of the Flood - "their [mankinds] ruin is accomplished because they have learnt all the secrets of the angels, and all the violence of the Satans, and all their powers -the most secret ones- and all the power of those who practice sorcery, and the power of witchcraft, and the power of those who make molten images for the whole earth: And how silver is produced from the dust of the earth, and how soft metal originates in the earth. For lead and tin are not produced from the earth like the first: it is a fountain that produces them, and an angel stands therein, and that angel is pre-eminent"

Man-kind was killed because they learned how to make lead? They learned metallurgy so they must die?

Again, the Bible says that mankind had to die because his heart and mind were on evil all the time - so says God in Genesis.

 

 

Chapter 67 - The author says that God said that the angels built the ark and when they finished, God preserved it for Noah and his family.  The Bible says that God commanded Noah to build the ark.  

Do you know see the almost angel-worship there is in this book?

 

 

Chapter 68 - The author says that Enoch personally gave Noah the book of the Parables before the Flood.  That's impossible.  Noah never met Enoch, his great-grandfather.

 

 

Chapter 69 - The author says that an angel named Gadreel showed mankind how to kill each other and the he was the fallen angel to showed Eve how to sin.

The Bible says that mankind knew how to kill by the first generation of Adam and Eve.   And the Bible says that God told Cain that sin was crouching at his door and not a fallen angel.  That Cain must master sin and not overthrow a fallen angel. And it says that the serpent, whom Revelation says it the same as the devil and Satan, deceived Eve.

The author also says here that Penemue taught mankind how to use pen and ink and thereby they all sinned from eternity to eternity because mankind was not meant to use pen and ink to confirm their good faith.  ??????

There's more of the same in the chapter, but for brevity's sake, I'll stop.

Next, section 3.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jayne]

My apologize to Tampered With.  I was wrong with who was speaking to whom.

Edited September 28, 2019 by Jayne

[Jayne]

I would appreciate it if the moderators would close this thread.

Thank you.

[ReneeIW]

17 minutes ago, Jayne said:

You were the one who asked me to do this.

No, if you go back and look at that thread, it was another member that asked you. And I think he, and others, are very interested  in learning what you have to say.

Edited September 28, 2019 by ReneeIW

[Jayne]

9 minutes ago, Tampered With said:

You must have me confused with someone else as I NEVER asked you to do this.  Maybe you need to go back and check to see who you were talking with as it was not me. Sorry for the confusion.

My very heart felt apologies.  I have erased my post.

[Jayne]

I still ask for the mods to close this thread or delete it as I am the OP and also the one who fouled it up.

I stand firmly by my study, but this topic has always and I guess will always put me in a bad place.