The Seven Heads of Daniel 7 and Rev. 17

[abcdef]

39 minutes ago, Diaste said:

Not even close to an equivalency. 

The first is pretty outlandish claim. Perhaps you should do some research into the Empire and the Church.

The second is...idk...strange? Any proof?

Number 3 isn't correct in the slightest. Islam began in Saudi Arabia, west and south of the Euphrates, and spread in all directions.

Seleucus came directly after Alexander and the kingdom lasted from 300-63 BC. Which means during that time Seleucus and not Rome ruled the Levant. This is the unbroken chain as the prophecy foretold. The gap is that Rome did not rule in the Levant for over 2 centuries after Alexander. Daniel 11 follows the Diadochi and the Seleucid empire right to the willful king which is the beast. Clearly not Rome.

Please continue your logic about the Dan. 2 statue a little further please,

When the stone strikes what is that showing?  (Jesus in 30 AD ish?)

 

When the chaff "flies away"? (Wheat/chaff judgment day?)

 

When the stone fills the earth? (Eternal new heavens and earth?)

 

[abcdef]

50 minutes ago, Diaste said:

 

Seleucus came directly after Alexander and the kingdom lasted from 300-63 BC. Which means during that time Seleucus and not Rome ruled the Levant. This is the unbroken chain as the prophecy foretold. The gap is that Rome did not rule in the Levant for over 2 centuries after Alexander. Daniel 11 follows the Diadochi and the Seleucid empire right to the willful king which is the beast. Clearly not Rome.

There are many Antichrists.

Satan is the first, Cain the second. 

After that, whoever was the leader of the people who wanted to destroy the people of God was an Antichrist, a "type" of Antichrist.

You are correct about the Antichrists of the Greek period, but they died and were replaced by different Antichrists.

Caesar was the Antichrist of Jesus' time.

The Bishop of ROME (BoR) has held his title since the first centuries and continues to this day.

--------------

The 7 heads of Rev 17 are mountains, but all are mountains of the same city, in 96 AD that was Rome, "one is".

If you agree that the 6th head is Rome, and that the time line continues after that, until our modern times, then we see that the time line is 1000's of years long and not 3 1/2 years, or 7 years.

Since there is no gap shown, at least one of the heads must live centuries.

It shows that it is not just one person, but many people in the same position of Antichrist.

[Sister]

1 hour ago, abcdef said:

OK,  

First look and see that there are no gaps in the time line of the iron nation/empire.

Then see how the iron is mixed with clay and then divides.

Especially look and see that the toes do not come together again, to become as large as the legs at the beginning of the iron.

Instead of growing larger the toes end.

When the toes end, it means that the people of Israel are restored to Jerusalem.

Remember that the statue began when the people of Israel lost control of Jerusalem to Babylon.

The statue ends when Israel is restored to control of Jerusalem (1967).

 

Hello there abcdef

Yes, each part of the body represents a kingdom.  The legs of iron represent Rome.  Rome ruled for the longest period out of all these kingdoms here.

Where the legs end, the feet start, the feet of iron and clay.

The statue ends when the end time kingdom is ruling (the 10 toes), because that's when Christ comes and crashes that whole system of kingdoms down.

 Daniel 2:42   And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.

  Daniel 2:43   And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.

  Daniel 2:44   And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

 

The statue ends when Christ returns, during the days of the 10 toes.  This is when all the kingdoms become the kingdoms of the Lord, and all the dominions of the earth will be given to the saints.

 

 Daniel 7:27   And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

 

[abcdef]

45 minutes ago, Sister said:

Hello there abcdef

Yes, each part of the body represents a kingdom.  The legs of iron represent Rome.  Rome ruled for the longest period out of all these kingdoms here.

Where the legs end, the feet start, the feet of iron and clay.

The statue ends when the end time kingdom is ruling (the 10 toes), because that's when Christ comes and crashes that whole system of kingdoms down.

Yes, but which crashing of the system is it?

The relationship between God and Israel after the flesh came crashing down when Israel rejected the kingdom after Pentecost.

The "system' crashed down again in 70 AD when Jerusalem fell.

It says in Heb 12:26-27, that God will shake the heavens and the earth once more. It also says that this temporal material universe shall not remain. This shaking has not happened yet.

The stone shows Jesus coming, but it is the second coming for salvation that shakes the material world and causes it to fly away.

That is when there is a new earth. (filled the earth)

 

45 minutes ago, Sister said:

 Daniel 2:42   And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.

  Daniel 2:43   And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.

  Daniel 2:44   And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

In the days of these kings, ......, but which kings?

The 10 divided kings, or one of the other kings?

The kingdom was "set up" on Pentecost, that would be just after the iron began.

The first division of the statue is in the legs, so the kingdom must come before the division, because the establishment of the kingdom causes the division. The continued division of the iron is also caused by the church.

The devouring of the statue is the conversion of the people into the christian kingdom.

It has been thought that the dividing and devouring of the statue happens after the stone strikes, but after the stone strikes the statue is a grinding to powder which is individual souls for the wheat/chaff judgment.

The nations which the statue represents must be divided and devoured into the church/kingdom. That happens before the stone strikes.

 

45 minutes ago, Sister said:

 

The statue ends when Christ returns, during the days of the 10 toes.  This is when all the kingdoms become the kingdoms of the Lord, and all the dominions of the earth will be given to the saints.

 

 Daniel 7:27   And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

 

The statue ends, when the opposite of the beginning, of the statue happens.

That is, the statue began when Jerusalem fell to Babylon. It will end when Israel is restored to Jerusalem (1967).

Since Jerusalem is already restored to Israel, it shows the end of the toes has already happened and the stone is about to strike.

--------

After Jerusalem falls, the stone will strike.

Maybe years, maybe months, but Israel is surrounded by the kings of the east from across the Euphrates (Iran) and the forces of Magog (The gentile nations).

It only a short time now.

 

 

[Sister]

7 hours ago, abcdef said:

Yes, but which crashing of the system is it?

The kingdoms of man.

God showed King Neb that it is he that raises up kingdoms, and he that plucks them up and tears them down.

Man failed.  They could not bring peace, nor deliver the earth from wars and oppression.  Of all the kingdoms, none were righteous.  In the end, the kingdoms of man lead to destruction and the wrath of God.  Man cannot rule over the earth righteously.

All kingdoms of man have been corrupted.  God will send one that cannot be corrupted. His Son, our Lord Jesus Christ.  His kingdom is an everlasting kingdom that shall not be plucked up, nor torn down.  It shall be given to the saints of the Most high.

The ten toes is the last kingdom of man to ever rule.  There is no more kingdoms of man after this one. 

The kingdoms of man did not end in 1967, it is still going, still corrupting, and still storing up wrath.

 

  Ezekiel 21:27   I will overturn, overturn, overturn, it: and it shall be no more, until he come whose right it is; and I will give it him.

[Diaste]

15 hours ago, abcdef said:

There are many Antichrists.

Satan is the first, Cain the second. 

After that, whoever was the leader of the people who wanted to destroy the people of God was an Antichrist, a "type" of Antichrist.

You are correct about the Antichrists of the Greek period, but they died and were replaced by different Antichrists.

Caesar was the Antichrist of Jesus' time.

The Bishop of ROME (BoR) has held his title since the first centuries and continues to this day.

I for one am not looking for an 'antichrist'. I'm looking for the beast. Anything or anyone against Christ is antichrist so that doesn't really help.

15 hours ago, abcdef said:

--------------

The 7 heads of Rev 17 are mountains, but all are mountains of the same city, in 96 AD that was Rome, "one is".

If you agree that the 6th head is Rome, and that the time line continues after that, until our modern times, then we see that the time line is 1000's of years long and not 3 1/2 years, or 7 years.

There are quite a few cities of the world that are one 7 hills. This does not point to Rome. It could, but does not have to.

15 hours ago, abcdef said:

Since there is no gap shown, at least one of the heads must live centuries.

There is a problem with the gap argument. Why is there a gap? I don't know. Is there a wide space between the given prophecy and fulfillment? Yes. Unless you are going to prove all the events of the prophecies of Daniel and the Gospels, the Epistles and the Revelation have all already occurred then there must exist a period of time between prophecy and fulfillment. 

 

[Diaste]

16 hours ago, abcdef said:

Please continue your logic about the Dan. 2 statue a little further please,

When the stone strikes what is that showing?  (Jesus in 30 AD ish?)

I would say no since this is part of the prophecy:

"In the days of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed, nor will it be left to another people. It will shatter all these kingdoms and bring them to an end, but will itself stand forever."

16 hours ago, abcdef said:

 

When the chaff "flies away"? (Wheat/chaff judgment day?)

Yes.

16 hours ago, abcdef said:

 

When the stone fills the earth? (Eternal new heavens and earth?)

 

Yes. Sort of. More likely the rule of Jesus on earth before eternity, but this could be speaking to eternity as well.

[abcdef]

14 hours ago, Sister said:

 

 

Quote

 

 

Edited July 5, 2020 by abcdef
computer went crazy

[abcdef]

14 hours ago, Sister said:

The kingdoms of man.

God showed King Neb that it is he that raises up kingdoms, and he that plucks them up and tears them down.

Man failed.  They could not bring peace, nor deliver the earth from wars and oppression.  Of all the kingdoms, none were righteous.  In the end, the kingdoms of man lead to destruction and the wrath of God.  Man cannot rule over the earth righteously.

No one can rule righteously without the Holy Spirit of love in their heart.

 

14 hours ago, Sister said:

All kingdoms of man have been corrupted.  God will send one that cannot be corrupted. His Son, our Lord Jesus Christ.  His kingdom is an everlasting kingdom that shall not be plucked up, nor torn down.  It shall be given to the saints of the Most high.

The kingdom began on Pentecost. The promises are for them and us. The kingdom is a spiritual one that even though we should pass away from this flesh, we cannot be removed from it. If the kingdom were of this world, then we would be removed from it when we die. The kingdom is in this world now through our spiritual presence in the flesh, but we will not be part of this flesh again as flesh and blood does not inherit the kingdom.

14 hours ago, Sister said:

The ten toes is the last kingdom of man to ever rule.  There is no more kingdoms of man after this one.

---------

Think about what you have said here.

Then compare what is shown in Rev 20 to Dan. 2.

At the end of the mill period, there are still the nations Magog that surround Jerusalem restored to Israel.

What I am saying is that the stone striking, is the fire from heaven that ends this material heaven and earth, "Yet once more", only the spiritual kingdom, will remain with God.

If you say that the stone striking in Dan. 2 is the end of all nations, then after that there can be no Magog at the end of the mill period. 

So the mill period must take place before the stone strikes.

================================================================================================================================================ 

 

14 hours ago, Sister said:

The kingdoms of man did not end in 1967, it is still going, still corrupting, and still storing up wrath.

--------------------

The statue is not showing all the nations/kingdoms of the planet.

It only shows the nations/kingdoms that rule over Israel.

The kingdoms of man did not end, but the gentile's rule over Jerusalem ended 1967 when Israel took control of the city.

Please consider this when observing the statue, In Dan. 2:39, it says that the kingdom of brass rules over all the earth.

Greece did not rule over the planet, bur it did rule over the entire "earth" of Israel.

The other kingdoms/nations should be looked at in the same way. They rule over Israel, not the planet.

 

 

14 hours ago, Sister said:

 

  Ezekiel 21:27   I will overturn, overturn, overturn, it: and it shall be no more, until he come whose right it is; and I will give it him.

 

[abcdef]

9 hours ago, Diaste said:

I for one am not looking for an 'antichrist'. I'm looking for the beast. Anything or anyone against Christ is antichrist so that doesn't really help.

-------------------------------

The beast is a nation/kingdom that supports the power of the Antichrist "head" of the nation. Dan. chs 2 & 7.

In Rev 12, it shows the dragon, waiting to devour the child (Herod/Rome). In the same image of the beast, with the same description in Rev 17, John writes of the heads "one is". The one that John says "is" is Rome in 96 AD.

This shows that the dragon/beast existed before Jesus was born, until 96 AD. at least, and we know that the Empire lasts long after John's time.

 The same dragon/beast is also shown at the end of the mill period Rev 20 deceiving the nations Magog to attack restored Jerusalem.

The head that "is" can only be Rome and Caesar.

The mark of the beast in the time of John was the mark of Rome and Caesar. If you had the mark of Caesar, then you had the mark of Rome, they are the same.

===================================================================================

 

There are quite a few cities of the world that are one 7 hills. This does not point to Rome. It could, but does not have to.

----------

In 96 AD it was Rome, one head is.

The mountains surround one city, the 6th hill of that city is Rome. Since all the hills surround one city, and the 6th hill is Rome, therefor the rest of the hills must also surround Rome.

The 8th is one of the seven.

==================================================================

 

There is a problem with the gap argument. Why is there a gap? I don't know. Is there a wide space between the given prophecy and fulfillment? Yes. Unless you are going to prove all the events of the prophecies of Daniel and the Gospels, the Epistles and the Revelation have all already occurred then there must exist a period of time between prophecy and fulfillment. 

------------

The "gap" represents the time between 70 AD and the resurrection/rapture (resur/rapt).

Some will say that there are absolutely no prophecies about this time period.

You see, Jesus predicted that Israel would reject the gospel kingdom and that Jerusalem would be destroyed.

He told His disciples that after Jerusalem fell, that there would be a time of the gentiles treading down of Jerusalem. (Lk 21:20-24, 24).

How long that time period would last apparently was unknown.

But the disciples may have believed that the time until the restoration of Jerusalem to Israel was not that long, maybe some would live long enough to see it.

Maybe like the captivity of Babylon, 70 years or less, 40 maybe.

So the time after 70 AD is shown in prophecy, it is just that the images and symbols are thousands of years old and are sometimes not understood without discussion.